My two cents not that it matters I never thought I would hear this kind of shall we say disturbing conversation going on about Martin. I have far better things to do than want to participate in all of this bashing. I think I will sit this one out for awhile longer and see if this resolves it self. I have to say without Martin there is no Tull Ian said so in a 1993 interview. So is this now the Ian Anderson board or the Jethro Tull board, because the way this sounds is that there can not be both. Sad to say I will take a break from all of this,I have met a lot a great folks here, I will still drop by from time to time.
I understand your frustration Charlie.
For some reason some feel the need to take sides and as well as shots.
There is simply no reason to try diminish Martin Barre's role as a member of Jethro Tull. If someone likes Florian's style better than Martin that is fine. But that doesn't change the fact, as Ian stated, without Martin there is no Jethro Tull.
We all know Ian is the driving force behind the band, but Martin is the one that made them a rock & roll band.
The last big album for Jethro Tull was Crest Of A Knave. And the focus of that album was on Martin's guitar playing.
Joined: Jul 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 2,952 Location: North Carolina, U.S.A.
Re: Martin Barre Interview in Goldmine « Reply #62 on Jun 27, 2012, 9:28pm »
The Jethro Tull Board I joined this Board almost 1 year ago and I have always enjoyed the great people here. This recent discussion about who or what is Jethro Tull, is not worth arguing over. I try to look at things as they are and not blame anyone for what it has become. With the emotional reactions to what should be a very happy time for Tull Fans, the overall direction has become silly and nonsensical.
I'm not mad at Ian or Martin for what has been a true musical family for many years. We can argue over every album without being angry, but this interview has divided many here. I suppose it was Goldmine Magazine's intention to be provocative and they accomplished that. Now that we are looking forward to this tour, someone has to rain all over it. They might even be owned by Metallica or MTV.
I will continue to post in a positive way about Tull no matter what anyone else thinks. If that upsets anyone then so be it. My thoughts are not unique to this forum. I won't care what is said by those who disagree. I'm old enough to speak for what I believe too.
When I first joined I told Jeff how special this place was to me and that includes everyone. If there are people that agree with that, then hang around and have fun.
Charlie, you are too valuable a member to leave now. This is a place for all Tull Fans.
If my avatar upsets anyone then too bad. I like Florian Opahle and that's why he is there. I like Martin Barre too but I have a current member of Tull as my choice.
We all need to relax and not worry over this issue. It is all about Rock and Roll. Not Politics.
The Jethro Tull Board I joined this Board almost 1 year ago and I have always enjoyed the great people here. This recent discussion about who or what is Jethro Tull, is not worth arguing over. I try to look at things as they are and not blame anyone for what it has become. With the emotional reactions to what should be a very happy time for Tull Fans, the overall direction has become silly and nonsensical.
I'm not mad at Ian or Martin for what has been a true musical family for many years. We can argue over every album without being angry, but this interview has divided many here. I suppose it was Goldmine Magazine's intention to be provocative and they accomplished that. Now that we are looking forward to this tour, someone has to rain all over it. They might even be owned by Metallica or MTV.
I will continue to post in a positive way about Tull no matter what anyone else thinks. If that upsets anyone then so be it. My thoughts are not unique to this forum. I won't care what is said by those who disagree. I'm old enough to speak for what I believe too.
When I first joined I told Jeff how special this place was to me and that includes everyone. If there are people that agree with that, then hang around and have fun.
Charlie, you are too valuable a member to leave now. This is a place for all Tull Fans.
[b]If my avatar upsets anyone then too bad. I like Florian Opahle and that's why he is there. I like Martin Barre too but I have a current member of Tull as my choice.
We all need to relax and not worry over this issue. It is all about Rock and Roll. Not Politics.[/b]
Jim, I love ya but you are obviously getting off trying to ruffle people's feathers by calling Ian's solo band Jethro Tull.
Martin deserves better and Tull fans deserve better.
It's fine to dig Florian (as we all do) and to have a little fun as well, but most don't feel the need to call Ian's solo band Jethro Tull. Even Ian has not gone that far - yet.
Spin me back down the years and the days of my youth
Joined: Sept 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 2,157 Location: From down the smoke below...
Re: Martin Barre Interview in Goldmine « Reply #64 on Jun 28, 2012, 5:10am »
Well, we certainly have the livliest chat board around!
Everyone has a right to their say, but for my tupennporth worth I'd say, some posts have been bordering on seriously flaming Martin.
In the spirit if free speech it's been allowed as that's one of the core principles behind setting this board up. I can't see that changing.
But if Martin had been a member here then I think he would be perfectly within his rights to have made a complaint on a couple of grounds.
Following a band like Tull has its similarities with a football team, some prefer X over Y in defence for no particularly reason, just personal preference. Same goes for Tull [or the IA band], whether it be Martin vs Florian, Andy vs John O'Hara, David vs Jonathan and as we all know that situation goes back to the year dot for Tull.
Some objective, constructive criticism is fair game, subjective views are fine, but when it's a constant regurgitation of teling Martin to put up or shut up, and it becomes so boring to the extent that good long-standing members are put off by it then I suppose some sort of line has to be drawn at sometime.
Martin has, I think, kept good counsel, I don't think his comments in Goldmine are particularly damaging to Ian, Tull or himself, it seems to me like he is a man who was steered towards giving a negative response but he gave it honestly without stacks of venom. Not something that has always been prevalent in Tull dismissals in the past it seems.
So, Martin lets off some steam, FFS so what, after 40+ years in one job and then 'released' maybe he has earned some right to sound off. Probably moreso than some of his constant hecklers.
If you like or prefer Florian, no problem, evolution of the Ian Anderson Band [whether it be Tull or not] continues, and we can all have and express an opinion, but lets drop the excessive slagging off of a player who has contributed greatly to a band we love.
Finally, I would just ask Nags one question.
If Martin is such a pain, how come you think the time is right to slag him off now?
Re: Martin Barre Interview in Goldmine « Reply #65 on Jun 28, 2012, 5:40am »
For the last time, I am not slagging Martin, he is a good guitar player. I just don't see his pouting as being genuine, and I feel he has taken the same advantage of Tull fans as Ian. I am slagging his dishonesty, something none of you have addressed. It seems OK to slag Ian, but as soon as someone points out Martin's bullshit about set lists, what happened with Tull, how he was part of all the other sackings of former members. Martin wasn't a prisoner, he could have struck out on his own anytime, but didn't.
It is that inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, just you all seem to have the same issue with things Ian does.
I think both Ian and Martin are ass holes, it's just that one is damn great musician and writer; the other an also ran guitarist - who instead of saying things that undermine his legacey, should shut up and play his guitar.
You have made around 25 posts, many if not all contain unnecessary barracking of a guitar player in a band which you claim to be a fan of.
Most of your arguments are supposition on your part and bear no truth, as you say about Martin, time to put up or shut up.
You are very wrong in your assertion that people here slag Ian, I think Ian has had more than a fair bit of praise and support from this board as well as other arenas on the web.
The constant downer has been, IMO, your posts.
Don't try to drag me into a debate about it, that seems to be your MO, feel welcome to post, but try to drop the constant harrassment approach.
Joined: Mar 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 35 Location: Just a normal local so-and-so
Re: Martin Barre Interview in Goldmine « Reply #69 on Jun 28, 2012, 7:43am »
It is a sign of how much emotional connection we feel to Tull that this discussion has got so heated!
I just want to say that Ian could have quite easily have released TAAB2 as a Jethro Tull album, thereby closing the door on Martin, but he didn't. To me, this means that this need not be a permanent parting of the ways. The only thing I think I know about Ian, is that he is a singularly driven individual that will go his own way at all costs. If that means changing musicians when it suits him, then that's just the way it is. Without that drive holding everything together, I doubt whether Tull would have gone on so long. Florian Opahle is an exceptional guitarist, who nevertheless did his utmost to play the sort of lines that Martin would have on TAAB2. This might be because Ian told him to, or it might just be that he knows what fits. Either way, it makes no odds to me, I'm afraid!
It is a sign of how much emotional connection we feel to Tull that this discussion has got so heated!
I just want to say that Ian could have quite easily have released TAAB2 as a Jethro Tull album, thereby closing the door on Martin, but he didn't. To me, this means that this need not be a permanent parting of the ways. The only thing I think I know about Ian, is that he is a singularly driven individual that will go his own way at all costs. If that means changing musicians when it suits him, then that's just the way it is. Without that drive holding everything together, I doubt whether Tull would have gone on so long. Florian Opahle is an exceptional guitarist, who nevertheless did his utmost to play the sort of lines that Martin would have on TAAB2. This might be because Ian told him to, or it might just be that he knows what fits. Either way, it makes no odds to me, I'm afraid!
Great post.
I think Ian wrestled over whether or not to call this album a Jethro Tull album and in the end he did the right thing. After all it is called:
JETHRO TULL'S IAN ANDERSON TABB2
So he did get the name in there for sales purposes without officially closing the door on Martin and Doane.
Ian has made it clear that he sees Tull touring again in the near future. It will be most interesting to see if Martin and Doane care to join him.
As for Florian's playing on this record, I get the feeling as did you that he is playing in the style of Martin. But something is missing. Maybe it was Florian's interpretation of what the guitar should sound like, or maybe it was Ian's input - or maybe it was both. But at the end of the day it was close, but it just wasn't "there".
Banker Bets is a perfect example of this. The guitar solo is nice, but it's just a solo. There's nothing that truly grabs you - no signature there. It could be anyone playing it. Martin's guitar solos give you chills. That's the difference.
For the last time, I am not slagging Martin, It is inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, Martin is an also ran guitarist - who should shut up and play his guitar.
[quote author=heavyhorse board=band thread=2999 post=26308 time=1340887384]. Banker Bets is a perfect example of this. The guitar solo is nice, but it's just a solo. There's nothing that truly grabs you - no signature there. It could be anyone playing it. Martin's guitar solos give you chills. That's the difference.
For the last time, I am not slagging Martin, It is inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, Martin is an also ran guitarist - who should shut up and play his guitar.
As for Florian's playing on this record, I get the feeling as did you that he is playing in the style of Martin. But something is missing. Maybe it was Florian's interpretation of what the guitar should sound like, or maybe it was Ian's input - or maybe it was both. But at the end of the day it was close, but it just wasn't "there".
Banker Bets is a perfect example of this. The guitar solo is nice, but it's just a solo. There's nothing that truly grabs you - no signature there. It could be anyone playing it. Martin's guitar solos give you chills. That's the difference.
This is a problem experienced by a lot of musicians in tribute bands. I have played bass in a Beatles band, and I play guitars and mandolin in a cover duo/band, so I know a bit about it... As I'm sure plenty of others on here do!
I agree that the Banker Bets solo is nothing special, but I believe Florian's still finding his voice in Tull/IA Band. Florian is doubtless technically able to exactly copy Martin's style - dynamics, choice of notes etc. if he wanted to but, the nearer he gets, the more noticeable would be the "something missing". Apart from that, he's going to want to bring his own way of playing in as well at some point, and it's this dilemma which leads to some things being well... Just Plain Different!
I sound like I'm supporting Florian, at the expense of Martin, but I'm really not! I'm sure no one else would have partenered Ian so generously, throughout the years. Martin has been so integral to Tull, but I won't miss him live if Forian treats his guitar work with respect and if this enables Ian to kick-start Tull now, with some new material then I'll be happier than I would be waiting the greatest hits tour to grind round again!
As for Florian's playing on this record, I get the feeling as did you that he is playing in the style of Martin. But something is missing. Maybe it was Florian's interpretation of what the guitar should sound like, or maybe it was Ian's input - or maybe it was both. But at the end of the day it was close, but it just wasn't "there".
Banker Bets is a perfect example of this. The guitar solo is nice, but it's just a solo. There's nothing that truly grabs you - no signature there. It could be anyone playing it. Martin's guitar solos give you chills. That's the difference.
This is a problem experienced by a lot of musicians in tribute bands. I have played bass in a Beatles band, and I play guitars and mandolin in a cover duo/band, so I know a bit about it... As I'm sure plenty of others on here do!
I agree that the Banker Bets solo is nothing special, but I believe Florian's still finding his voice in Tull/IA Band. Florian is doubtless technically able to exactly copy Martin's style - dynamics, choice of notes etc. if he wanted to but, the nearer he gets, the more noticeable would be the "something missing". Apart from that, he's going to want to bring his own way of playing in as well at some point, and it's this dilemma which leads to some things being well... Just Plain Different!
I sound like I'm supporting Florian, at the expense of Martin, but I'm really not! I'm sure no one else would have partenered Ian so generously, throughout the years. Martin has been so integral to Tull, but I won't miss him live if Forian treats his guitar work with respect and if this enables Ian to kick-start Tull now, with some new material then I'll be happier than I would be waiting the greatest hits tour to grind round again!
Yep, I totally agree HH nicely put. I don't think you have to qualify your views though, there are no "sides" (just a couple of folks tossing gasoline on the fire) The problems with what we've been addressing DO exist. I think that the guys in Ian's band do have to distinguish themselves in their own way, a pretty heavy job considering what that they are being judged on what and who came before them. I think Ian's decision to not do much other Tull material (aside from one monster Tull song hahaha) on this tour is a good one. Do TAAB 2, get comfortable playing their "own" stuff. Grow on it. Florian comes from a flamenco style of playing and then asked to become a rock guy, he has some chops to develop aside from learning Martin's lines.
When Divinities came out out I thought hmmmmm could be boring as all get out. Then I went to see the show. A folk violinist (I don't remember his name) Doane on electronic drums Andy on synths and Jon Noyce. A strange recipe. With the solo bits and little jams they did between the songs it took on a great character, very prog. (Doane and Noyce did a great piece, yes Noyce!! I know..) Something I hadn't seen from Ian since APP. I'm not comparing the two, just the impression I had that I'd seen something completely out of the ordinary and entertaining. After that they unfortunately did the first version of "Aquadiddly" ... almost ruined the whole show. ;-) Point being that given half a chance (by Ian) this new band could do cool things. Ian just needs to loosen his grip is all and let them stretch there own legs a bit. I heard one recording of the solo in Banker Bets by Florian that actually smoked (Im sure it varies from night to night) so he has it in him. Doing cover material can be a real trap for a musician, it's hard to get out from under and shine. Darin 4 and a half cents and 2 stars Cody
This is a problem experienced by a lot of musicians in tribute bands. I have played bass in a Beatles band, and I play guitars and mandolin in a cover duo/band, so I know a bit about it... As I'm sure plenty of others on here do!
I agree that the Banker Bets solo is nothing special, but I believe Florian's still finding his voice in Tull/IA Band. Florian is doubtless technically able to exactly copy Martin's style - dynamics, choice of notes etc. if he wanted to but, the nearer he gets, the more noticeable would be the "something missing". Apart from that, he's going to want to bring his own way of playing in as well at some point, and it's this dilemma which leads to some things being well... Just Plain Different!
I sound like I'm supporting Florian, at the expense of Martin, but I'm really not! I'm sure no one else would have partenered Ian so generously, throughout the years. Martin has been so integral to Tull, but I won't miss him live if Forian treats his guitar work with respect and if this enables Ian to kick-start Tull now, with some new material then I'll be happier than I would be waiting the greatest hits tour to grind round again!
Yep, I totally agree HH nicely put. I don't think you have to qualify your views though, there are no "sides" (just a couple of folks tossing gasoline on the fire) The problems with what we've been addressing DO exist. I think that the guys in Ian's band do have to distinguish themselves in their own way, a pretty heavy job considering what that they are being judged on what and who came before them. I think Ian's decision to not do much other Tull material (aside from one monster Tull song hahaha) on this tour is a good one. Do TAAB 2, get comfortable playing their "own" stuff. Grow on it. Florian comes from a flamenco style of playing and then asked to become a rock guy, he has some chops to develop aside from learning Martin's lines.
When Divinities came out out I thought hmmmmm could be boring as all get out. Then I went to see the show. A folk violinist (I don't remember his name) Doane on electronic drums Andy on synths and Jon Noyce. A strange recipe. With the solo bits and little jams they did between the songs it took on a great character, very prog. (Doane and Noyce did a great piece, yes Noyce!! I know..) Something I hadn't seen from Ian since APP. I'm not comparing the two, just the impression I had that I'd seen something completely out of the ordinary and entertaining. After that they unfortunately did the first version of "Aquadiddly" ... almost ruined the whole show. ;-) Point being that given half a chance (by Ian) this new band could do cool things. Ian just needs to loosen his grip is all and let them stretch there own legs a bit. I heard one recording of the solo in Banker Bets by Florian that actually smoked (Im sure it varies from night to night) so he has it in him. Doing cover material can be a real trap for a musician, it's hard to get out from under and shine. Darin 4 and a half cents and 2 stars Cody
Agreed, Darin. From the recordings I've heard if the band playing live they are playing circles around what they did in the studio. Naturally the band will develops and get more into a "groove" with time. I think they are doing really good--putting on a hell of a live show.
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