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Re: Martin Barre's New Day « Reply #20 on Feb 3, 2012, 1:49am »
Here's what I was talking about, regarding the feeling with which Martin plays, his inimitable sound and the essential nature of both in comprising "the Tull sound." Ian could have stuck with Mick Abrahams, or went with any other guitarist, but Jethro Tull never would have achieved the same kind of success without Martin's axe.
Also, Singe, you are quite wrong about nobody knowing who Martin Barre is. On the contrary, I think he is probably more well known than most other guitarists. Tull fans tend to be a loyal and fanatical bunch. They know who Martin is. I would venture to say the same about most casual rock fans. He is the most beloved member of Tull, hands down. Ian may be the most respected, but Martin is most loved.
Lastly, you are also wrong about Martin not having "the chops" to write first-rate material on his own. This track alone, as well as the entire Stage Left album, and much of the material on The Meeting, proves otherwise.
Re: Martin Barre's New Day « Reply #21 on Feb 3, 2012, 7:49am »
Although an unpopular view, I tend to agree with Singe - I'm no expert on musicianship I admit, but take it as read that Martin is an outstanding player. I've been a big Tull fan for over 20 years and consistently listen to their music much more than that of any other artist but freely confess that I don't really care whether Martin is on TAAB2, as I will always firmly see Tull as Ian Anderson's thing through and through (it's not as if Ian and MArtin were a writing team). Facebook has repeated "where's Martin?" posts in reply to the TAAB2 announcement and I know many fans are really bothered about his absence but I'm not one of them (I have no interest in Martin's solo work for example).
Also, I get the impression Ian is taking some flak from fans for Martin's absence, despite it seeming clear that it is entirely Martin's decision and TAAB2 being released under Ian's name seems obvioulsy intended to leave the door open for Martin, should he wish to resume with Tull.
Well the Shit has Hit the Fan. All the frustration of Tull is finally out there for us to see. I can't blame anyone for speaking what they think about Martin and Ian. One thing that surprised me about Martin is his lack of effort in his New Day promotion. He has made some interviews but who is going to know about it other than us.
At first I thought he would really kick the door down with a great concept for the Band. Instead we get the trickle out of members with various skills and history. Earlier he just seemed pissed off about 'Tull being on Ice'. Paul and I gave him a real concept that made even more sense to grab the world by the balls! My hope was Martin could do a radical departure from Tull as an example of his guitar greatness. Instead we get Martin Barre's New Day. The name for a band is almost as important as the music itself. Look at Jethro Tull. For all the gigs they changed their name before one finally got attention. Martin is worthy of superior talent to invest this much time and risk to his new group. I want him to be successful too but I fear this project will disappear before it comes to the U.S. Damn Martin! You were chased by Fuckin' Wolves in Canada and you want to call this a New Day ? I still love Martin Lancelot Barre no matter what you want to be called.
I'm going to wait for their new album before I start slingin' virtual mud. I agree it should be more original, instead on relying on past Tull stuff.
Private movie showing in my head, what button do I push for rewind?
Very well said Jeff. I agree 100% Martin and Ian are "Tull" as I know it period. So Ian can take all the credit in the world now but he also knew it and has said "Without Martin there is no Jethro Tull". Notice he hasn't officially called TaAB2 "Jethro Tull" Why is that?
Of course Ian wrote all the brilliant music and arrangements we all love. I consider him an absolute genius musician and composer who chose Martin Barre and the others as the ones able to deliver it at the level he needed when it really mattered.
Ian knew Martin's playing was and is very unique (just like Ian's was). The 2 of them were musically a perfect fit. Similar styles and techniques acoustically however both unlike anyone elses. Ian also chose to keep Martin around for 45 yrs while replacing everyone else multiple times. Why is that?
Obviously Ian Anderson knows how special Martin is (well, maybe not right now but he will again). Martins playing carries that special connecting quality that you do not come across alot. He's alot like David Gilmour (but alot better technically) Anything else with Ian sounds stock to me. The solo for Aqualung is known as one of the best solos of all time. Yet It's an unorthodox style he plays on the pentatonic scale the way he creates that sequence of notes, plus the bends and the holds etc..you can feel his adrenaline building as he starts burning, makes you have to pay attention. That's why it's such a loved solo..You can't just be OK and come up with that. You have to be special. I feel that connection every time I hear him play. Even Martin's guitar tone is so distinctive to Tull.. When you hear him solo and it sounds like "Tull" that's because it is a huge part of the Tull sound..at least to many. When you hear Ian's flute you expect to hear Martin's sparse little melodic guitar runs blended in. Not to mention the tight live interplay back and fourth between the two of them. Ian is the MAN no doubt! I could go on forever about Ian's brilliance..I have spent alot of my life dedicated to that..but there is also no doubt that Martin is essential to Tull if you really want it to be "Tull" as most the fans know it. I could care less about what 99% of the world think about it. If someone doesn't agree that's a matter of opinion. I was kinda under the assumption that all the fans were enlightened long ago of Martin's importance to Tull but that's not the case. To Me Martin and Ian have grown together to become the true Tull sound.. Ian knows it!! and so does Martin. Wait until Martin's show comes to town and they open up with Minstrel the long version and kill it..That long intro is one of my favorite instrumental Tull sections ever and even written by.. Martin Barre!
I agree Martin is a special part of Tull. Hopefully, Ian will see this in the near future. When Ian replaces a member, they don't seem to come back. Maybe this time will be different. Martin's guitar solo on ''Trowsersnakes'' is one of my favorites.
Here's what I was talking about, regarding the feeling with which Martin plays, his inimitable sound and the essential nature of both in comprising "the Tull sound." Ian could have stuck with Mick Abrahams, or went with any other guitarist, but Jethro Tull never would have achieved the same kind of success without Martin's axe.
Also, Singe, you are quite wrong about nobody knowing who Martin Barre is. On the contrary, I think he is probably more well known than most other guitarists. Tull fans tend to be a loyal and fanatical bunch. They know who Martin is. I would venture to say the same about most casual rock fans. He is the most beloved member of Tull, hands down. Ian may be the most respected, but Martin is most loved.
Lastly, you are also wrong about Martin not having "the chops" to write first-rate material on his own. This track alone, as well as the entire Stage Left album, and much of the material on The Meeting, proves otherwise.
Jeff
Every true Tull FANatic knows who Martin is. Tell em', Jeff!
There was / a rush along the Fulham Road, There was / a hush in the Passion Play.
Darin Cody Official JTB Flautist member is offline
"He catches angels by the balls!"
Joined: May 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 787
Re: Martin Barre's New Day « Reply #25 on Feb 3, 2012, 2:46pm »
I have heard and read all the press and interviews with Martin AND Ian in the last few months and NOWHERE have I heard Martin "whining" or bad mouthing Ian in anyway. Nor has he said Tull is done. He said "Tull is on ice" and there are no plans for a new "Tull" recording. Ians people (Anne Lieghton Media...?) have also said that "Jethro Tull is not over and there has been no announcement of a break- up" Martin has done nothing but promote his activities, as any other performer would do and he has done it as the total gentleman that he is. Calling him a "footnote" of Tull is so off the mark, and an unnecessary insult. His job for 43 years has been unlike any other rock guitarist. To provide electricrity to one of the most eclectic songwriters in rock history. He has a broader range than most any rock axeman out there. He has been the power behind Ian from the beginning (69) I think he deserves a bit more respect than some here have been giving him. I don't hear any of the back biting critism people seem to be filling in to their words. When asked about the relationship between he and Ian as far back as 1980, Martin has referred to it as a business relationship! and they have helped each other become rich! So imagining either of them, let down pissed off or insulted by the other is pure.......imagifuckingnation. If Martin wanted to make a nice big splash of it all and relly get his name out there before a tour or CD release, he could simply say that "he doesn't care to play with a singer that can't sing his own songs anymore and continues to insist on playing them" (and he wouldn't be lying) But that hasn't happened! Because Martin is a class act. I'd go see him ANY time over a Clapton show or any other so-called veteran rock guitarist. On the other hand I completely look forward to TAAB2........ more than the actual TAAB40th show, as this has been written around his current voice, and recorded with a bunch of guys that have been playing together pretty steadily now for a couple of years. It's an Ian recording though........and I don't have to worry about Ian doing a very dissappointing SFTW! Pardon the reposting of some fine examples of the "footnote" player that's been holding Ian back for the last 43 years. Darin Cody
I have heard and read all the press and interviews with Martin AND Ian in the last few months and NOWHERE have I heard Martin "whining" or bad mouthing Ian in anyway. Nor has he said Tull is done. He said "Tull is on ice" and there are no plans for a new "Tull" recording. Ians people (Anne Lieghton Media...?) have also said that "Jethro Tull is not over and there has been no announcement of a break- up" Martin has done nothing but promote his activities, as any other performer would do and he has done it as the total gentleman that he is. Calling him a "footnote" of Tull is so off the mark, and an unnecessary insult. His job for 43 years has been unlike any other rock guitarist. To provide electricrity to one of the most eclectic songwriters in rock history. He has a broader range than most any rock axeman out there. He has been the power behind Ian from the beginning (69) I think he deserves a bit more respect than some here have been giving him. I don't hear any of the back biting critism people seem to be filling in to their words. When asked about the relationship between he and Ian as far back as 1980, Martin has referred to it as a business relationship! and they have helped each other become rich! So imagining either of them, let down pissed off or insulted by the other is pure.......imagifuckingnation. If Martin wanted to make a nice big splash of it all and relly get his name out there before a tour or CD release, he could simply say that "he doesn't care to play with a singer that can't sing his own songs anymore and continues to insist on playing them" (and he wouldn't be lying) But that hasn't happened! Because Martin is a class act. I'd go see him ANY time over a Clapton show or any other so-called veteran rock guitarist. On the other hand I completely look forward to TAAB2........ more than the actual TAAB40th show, as this has been written around his current voice, and recorded with a bunch of guys that have been playing together pretty steadily now for a couple of years. It's an Ian recording though........and I don't have to worry about Ian doing a very dissappointing SFTW! Pardon the reposting of some fine examples of the "footnote" player that's been holding Ian back for the last 43 years. Darin Cody
Spin me back down the years and the days of my youth
Joined: Sept 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 2,202 Location: From down the smoke below...
Re: Martin Barre's New Day « Reply #27 on Feb 3, 2012, 3:29pm »
Darin I agree with your analysis, I was shocked at first, but as I've alluded to there seems to be myriad reasons why it seems Martin isn't on TaaB2 or the tour.
We can all surmise but as you say, Martin has only said Tull is on ice and no Tull album in the forseeable. There are some 60 year olds I know who consider the end of next week outside of the foreseeable future; so the 18 months suggested by people in the know seems to tie with Martin's position.
We are not just talking press releases from Ian's offices, this was the position expressed in casual conversation when I last met with someone from Tull management. Until one or the other categorically says otherwise, let's celebrate what we've all been waiting for (and moaning about) for years new music and re-workings of old classics live.
Martin can not be considred a footnote in Tull history unless you have no respect for the guy at all, and how could you be a Tull fan without supporting the whole. There's a few Tull members I could never quite take to, but they were Ian's selections, and so Martin couldn't be that bad if he stood Ian's test for 44 years. For me he'll always be a giant amongst guitarists, especially when he's plugged in.
Looking forward to the TaaB and MB tours. Be nice though if MB guested at some of Ian's and vice versa....
"The do-er and the thinker, no allowance for the other, as the failing light illuminates the mercenaries creed." Boxes come and boxes go, you need the cash or be in the know.
Joined: Jul 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 2,952 Location: North Carolina, U.S.A.
Re: Martin Barre's New Day « Reply #28 on Feb 3, 2012, 3:37pm »
One thing great about Martin Barre is his guitar. He sings some and plays flute as well as some. I just hope he can put together an energy driven performance with the talent he has. I can't be overwhelmed by his choice of name "New Day". It just doesn't sound aggressive or attention grabbing. I hope he can create something more like Excalibur did. I saw him play through a severe thunderstorm in Baltimore, Maryland back in '98. He was doing his solo during the height of the storm. When lightning flashed above him he paused for the thunder, then blasted his mighty axe like a demon possessed. That's what I would hope to see again.
As far as titles go..I find it very odd that anyone could possibly be disapointed with "NEW DAY" but will accept "Thick as A Brick Part 2" just ridiculous..
I'm hoping that Martin can sustain a tour to the U.S. next summer or fall. My expectations about the name of his band are based on the difficulty of establishing a unique image. It could be that I don't care what the name is as long as the music delivers. But the name New Day seems somewhat predictable. "Thick as a Brick 2" ? What else could you call it.
Joined: Jul 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 2,952 Location: North Carolina, U.S.A.
Re: Martin Barre's New Day « Reply #32 on Feb 4, 2012, 1:24pm »
Earlier I deleted a post criticizing Martin for his choice of band name "New Day". After further review I should have been less intense even though I felt like speaking my mind. Concerning the name "New Day". 1 - It does reflect his history with Jethro Tull. 2 - It makes Martin Barre feel good. 3 - I would love to see him in the U.S., hopefully nearby. 4 - Bring some "Passion Play" in the set list.
I am not bashing Martin, just calling it as I see it. First, I think it is Martin who is "doing whole rock star break up", Ian has not said a word.. He’s left the door open, this was echoed by someone else on this board who seems to have gotten that from James Duncan "Smith". Martin was the one who went to the press saying Tull is over, and frankly that decision does not rest with him, and have you read the silly things on his site. BTW, notice Martin is still listed as a member fo Tull on the Ian Anderson site. The Martin Barre era is over, but Tull goes on. In fact even during the Planet Rock interview yesterday, the DJ kept calling it Jethro Tull's TAAB2, cause that is how the world sees it.
Where we do differ is our view of how good Martin is, and as I said I think he is great in Tull, just OK otherwise. I have all his solo stuff, including the Summer Band disc, like to support Tull members, , and frankly it is OK. I am spoiled, I want better than OK, and Martin can't write that. Just because you can spell Django Reinhardt, doesn’t mean you can play like him. The reality is that for 99% of the planet if Anderson is there it’s Tull. Even if you think back to 72 – 73, their prime, Martin is a close third in memories. When I remember APP show, it’ the start, Ian, Jeffery, The movie, the rabbit, and then Martin. He has had a god ride, I don’t see him having the chops to do it alone, the fact that he went with Noyce just proves it, does anyone have less stage presence? I would argue this is why he leans on the Tull stuff, he gets support from folks on this board, and can hide his inadequacies.
I know some won’t like that, but it’s not Ian vs. Martin. It’s not about the underdog, it’s about the music. Here is a thought, is it possible that Martin was holding Ian back, and once Ian started seeing the possibilities with new players he went for it. Martin should go for it, play his own stuff and see what gives. And Jeff, Martin is not essential to Tull, he is not that underrated, because he is just OK, I would not push Stage Left, that much, it is OK, with the choice of guitarists out there, OK does not cut it. I don’t think Martin is more beloved than Ian, because 99% or Tull record buyers could not tell you who Martin Barre is. If he is pissed at Andy and Noyce being gone, then he should have left with them cause O’hara and Goodier wipe the floor with those two. My wife was upset when I got rid of the old chair too, it had been in the family forever, a year on, even she says the room looks much better.
Sorry, Singe, but Martin is not just "OK." He is a living legend and ranks with the top four or five greatest rock guitarists of all time. How can you listen to an album like Stormwatch, for example, and say that Martin is just "okay"? It's not just a question of his tremendous skill and technical ability, on both electric and classical acoustic guitar, it's also the emotion with which he plays. There is not another guitarist alive who plays with as much feeling. It's that sort of intangible quality that he possesses that has made him the perfect guitarist to help fully realize Ian's lyrical ideas.
Contrast that with Florian, and it's no comparison. Florian's an excellent guitarist to be sure, but he lacks the intangible quality that Martin has. Florian's much more run-of-the mill, not nearly as distinctive as Martin in the way he plays, and that's especially true of his electric guitar. (I think he's much better as an acoustic guitarist.)
Plus, I don't think Martin was "holding Ian back" from anything. Ian wasn't writing music. He refused for years to release any new materiall, because -- these are his words -- he feared there was no money in it.
Now, he's hit upon a way to satisfy the fans' craving for new music and make a huge bundle while's he at it, and so he's doing it. I love the idea of it, don't get me wrong, and I've always believed that Ian had another "heavy" album in him. As I said, I already love the idea behind the album, and I'm sure I'll love the music and lyrics too. It's just that I would love it so much more if Martin Barre were the guitarist.
Jeff
P.S. Your keyboard is royally fucked up.
Ooh, I gues you told me!
Fact remains that no matter how many vidoes you post of Martin it does not change the fact that he is an ok player ina world of gretas. A legend in him mind maby, certainly yours.
But let's look at the real world, how does he compare to his peers, rather poorly I am affriad. Compare him in 1970 - 1975, see how he pales compared to what David Gilmour, Steve Howe, Frank Zappa, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Robert Fripp, Steve Vai, Adrian Belew, Ronnie Montrose, and dozens of others. Go back and listen to the boots from APP ot TAAB, he is average. He is lucky Ian and Jeffery carried him.
He won't have the steam or resources to make it to the states, I can't think of a place where he would play in Toronto, maybe the Tim Horton drive through downtown.
BTW, you should check how spell Doane's name, it is not Doanne, I know it's the keyboard it sticks. Nothing wrong with my 'fucking' keyboard, although I do find people who run out of Facts, turn to Fuck.
Anyways, I need to find the Tull board, this seems to be the Martin Barre board, enjoy!
Sorry, Singe, but Martin is not just "OK." He is a living legend and ranks with the top four or five greatest rock guitarists of all time. How can you listen to an album like Stormwatch, for example, and say that Martin is just "okay"? It's not just a question of his tremendous skill and technical ability, on both electric and classical acoustic guitar, it's also the emotion with which he plays. There is not another guitarist alive who plays with as much feeling. It's that sort of intangible quality that he possesses that has made him the perfect guitarist to help fully realize Ian's lyrical ideas.
Contrast that with Florian, and it's no comparison. Florian's an excellent guitarist to be sure, but he lacks the intangible quality that Martin has. Florian's much more run-of-the mill, not nearly as distinctive as Martin in the way he plays, and that's especially true of his electric guitar. (I think he's much better as an acoustic guitarist.)
Plus, I don't think Martin was "holding Ian back" from anything. Ian wasn't writing music. He refused for years to release any new materiall, because -- these are his words -- he feared there was no money in it.
Now, he's hit upon a way to satisfy the fans' craving for new music and make a huge bundle while's he at it, and so he's doing it. I love the idea of it, don't get me wrong, and I've always believed that Ian had another "heavy" album in him. As I said, I already love the idea behind the album, and I'm sure I'll love the music and lyrics too. It's just that I would love it so much more if Martin Barre were the guitarist.
Jeff
P.S. Your keyboard is royally fucked up.
Ooh, I gues you told me!
Fact remains that no matter how many vidoes you post of Martin it does not change the fact that he is an ok player ina world of gretas. A legend in him mind maby, certainly yours.
But let's look at the real world, how does he compare to his peers, rather poorly I am affriad. Compare him in 1970 - 1975, see how he pales compared to what David Gilmour, Steve Howe, Frank Zappa, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Robert Fripp, Steve Vai, Adrian Belew, Ronnie Montrose, and dozens of others. Go back and listen to the boots from APP ot TAAB, he is average. He is lucky Ian and Jeffery carried him.
He won't have the steam or resources to make it to the states, I can't think of a place where he would play in Toronto, maybe the Tim Horton drive through downtown.
BTW, you should check how spell Doane's name, it is not Doanne, I know it's the keyboard it sticks. Nothing wrong with my 'fucking' keyboard, although I do find people who run out of Facts, turn to Fuck.
Anyways, I need to find the Tull board, this seems to be the Martin Barre board, enjoy!
So, let me get this straight, you can attack Martin, bash him to your heart's delight, but if someone defends Martin, disagrees with you and feels that you are wrong, you don't like it and so you pack up and go elsewhere?
I hope you don't do that. We've always welcomed you here. There was nothing I wrote on a personal level to attack you, other than to say I disagree with you when you say that Martin is just OK.
You are free to express any strong anti-Martin views that you have on the board.....some people agree with you and there were several posts in favor of your views.....other people disagreed strongly and posted their opinion. All of that is as it should be.
As far as what I said about your computer, it was just a joke, really, saying your keyboard was royally fucked up, was just a joke at what was happening every time you hit the apostrophe key. It was not intended in a hostile manner, and I apologize if it came across that way.
"There is only one real sin and that is to persuade oneself that the second best is anything but second best."Doris Lessing
"If you agree with me on nine out of twelve issues, vote for me. If you agree with me on twelve out of twelve issues, see a psychiatrist."Ed Koch
Darin Cody Official JTB Flautist member is offline
"He catches angels by the balls!"
Joined: May 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 787
Re: Martin Barre's New Day « Reply #35 on Feb 4, 2012, 5:57pm »
Gerald Bostock posted this on FB this morning: "Hey Jeffrey. That old sleaze-bag Anderson told me that Martin has other plans this year. Check out www.martinbarre.com for news of his solo dates and other projects."
Looks like the old sleaze-bag stills supports poor old Mart! It's almost as if somebody's paying attention........Thanks Gerry. Darin Cody
Gerald Bostock posted this on FB this morning: "Hey Jeffrey. That old sleaze-bag Anderson told me that Martin has other plans this year. Check out www.martinbarre.com for news of his solo dates and other projects."
Looks like the old sleaze-bag stills supports poor old Mart! It's almost as if somebody's paying attention........Thanks Gerry. Darin Cody
I guess Ian is still carrying him! See he is still benefiting from TAAB2.
Has it really come to this? We are pointing out spelling errors? That's not a good sign.
Yeah, this is the Tull board. Maybe you were looking for the Ian Anderson Band board. Tull fans for the most part LOVE Martin. He is like a family member to me. Martin is right up there with all those guitarists. You say "Listen to the Passion Play boots?" So you're going by some old crappy bootlegs of what? Martin's big guitar solo? I have heard many of those, where he's just wailing on riffs. I love it! It didn't sound like he was just running the straight blues he was gong for something different. and some nights he was just intense! Maybe doesn't sound as technically impressive as someone like Richie Blackmore or Steve Howe.. but he also technically got alot better over the years? I love Gilmour more than most anyone.. but he could never play something like "Budapest"..Besides if you base your argument about how flashy Martin's live solo was or wasn't in 1973 you're missing the point. It's about how he was perfect for the Tull music and alot of fans have grown to know him as the other half of Tull. Maybe not you.. but many have. and that's a fact. You want to disagree and do a little martin bashing on a Tull board you're going to fire alot of fans up. But that's Ok.. all in good Internet fun right? No reason to leave I enjoy such discussions. That's what we're here for..Just makes me appreciate Martin even more..
Jethro Tull - Ian Anderson Band; is there a difference, just in the way the check is made out, musically same thing - dont believe me - Pegg and Palmer seem to agree.
the difference is the whole point of the disagreement of this entire thread. I don't feel like repeating my points again just read over and over until it's clear. What exactly though does Peggy agree with? It's ok that you're wrong singe. You just haven't been enlightned. Too mezmerized by Ian or something. Have you enjoyed Ian's live vocals for the past 15 years?
It sounds like Ian to me. I don't expect him to sound the same as he did in his 20's. He sings the best he can and remembers the lyrics.
Joined: Aug 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 4,698 Location: By Scotch Corner
Re: Martin Barre's New Day « Reply #39 on Feb 4, 2012, 9:13pm »
It's very strange to hear someone so down on Martin.
I think Martin is a totally unique guitarist.
Is he the greatest? No. But who else could have been Ian's axe-man for all these years?
Fact is the two have been great match for a long time. And there's simply no reason to attack Martin. Since Ian lost his voice, the worst part of every Tull show is watching Ian struggle to sing.
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I still love Martin Lancelot Barre no matter what you want to be called. 
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