Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 5:45:35 GMT -5
There is no way this is a room recording and if it is, then it's a room recording of studio demos. It's generations old so it's a little deceiving but the drums are miced and mixed and the bass is direct. The levels are off a little but this could be Peggs bass rehearsal recordings or something of that nature. It's not mastered as it was never meant for release. They never rehearsed this stuff to play live and the music is too flawless!
|
|
|
Post by Mix on Apr 6, 2011 6:40:35 GMT -5
There is no way this is a room recording and if it is, then it's a room recording of studio demos. It's generations old so it's a little deceiving but the drums are miced and mixed and the bass is direct. The levels are off a little but this could be Peggs bass rehearsal recordings or something of that nature. It's not mastered as it was never meant for release. They never rehearsed this stuff to play live and the music is too flawless! Ok, lets have a look a little more closely as my first listen was on my laptop/headphones. Part 1: at 0:40 in you can clearly hear where the Guitar and Keyboard play the same part the sound of the room. This suggests the Guitar is not miced directly. I used to stick a cassette recorder in the corner of a room when I rehearsed, it has that sound. At 2:19 it sounds to me that the Bass has some of that room sound too. At 3:33 the Keybaords really have that room sound. Why would they mic the drums, DI the bass but not bother with the Guitar/Keyboards? The drums and Bass are louder, Peggy would be near the drums hence my suggestion he might be the owner of the recording. Maybe Quizz can confirm if this came from a member of the band? At the very end of part 1 it ends with a hit on the floor tom. Again, it just doesn't sound like a miced drum. Part 2: at 3:37 the snare drum is really loud. If this was a multitrack recording of the drums there would be an even level across the whole track, it would have had some mix even if it was a demo. Again, sounds to me like the cassette recorder is closer to the drums than Guitar/Keyboards. I'm not sure I agree this is generations old. Again maybe Quizz can provide some clues as to where it came from and if its had any cleaning. There is plenty of dynamics in this recording. If this is a 2,3+ generation copy there would be no punch and a mountain of hiss. These recordings are remarkably quiet. The cymbals seem to be suffering from either classic cassette tape lose of high end which happens as cassettes age or there is dolby noise reduction which always destroys the high end but that would explain the lack of hiss. Going back to the mics, another explanation might be the use of boundary mics which are commonly used for recording rooms. Anyway, this is fascinating stuff. These recordings highlight what a great band Tull are at its core minus Ian's contribution and shows just how important Martin and the other guys are in making Tull sound like Tull!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 7:01:45 GMT -5
if say, pegg was recording his bass lines on to an unmixed multitrack recording he would have the levels set however he wanted to hear what he wanted to hear. Plus this does not sound like live music. What would they be rehearsing for? They hardley ever all played live in the studio. During this time I don't think they did atall. If it was a rehearsal it's the most perfect rehearsal I have ever heard. The room sound could be a reverb or this could be a room recording of some studio tracks being played in a room. But to my ears It's defiently studio recordings. You can also hear the tom mics mixed near-pefectly. During the time before Crest Tull had listening parties for select fans who were played many new tracks including some that didn't make the lp. The fans got to vote for their favorites. I have several close friends who attended these and therefore have their names on the inner sleeve of the Crest vinyl. I will play these for them to see if they remember anything like this.
|
|
|
Post by Mix on Apr 6, 2011 7:32:01 GMT -5
I'm totally up for being corrected if I'm wrong but my money is still on this being live. Having seen Tull only a couple of weeks ago I was reminded by just how tight they are as a band. This does sound like a live band to me. I think there is a misconception about Ian and recording in that he lays his parts down to a click track and has the rest of the guys email their parts in. While this may be true for a few tracks, complicated arrangements like Budapest need to be worked out as a band. Ian has said on many occasions when asked about getting all the guys in the same room to record that this is in fact what they do and have always done. He even has a couple of cottages on his estate for the guys to stay in when recording. They would be rehearsing to get this music right before recording. You've obviously need ever seen Tull play live It takes a lot of work to get a band that tight. The only way to do it is to rehearse, A LOT Its too dry to be a digital reverb. Its a natural room reverb for sure. Good point, this could be true. I might be wrong but I thought they got to vote on recorded/finished tracks that would make the album, not unrecorded songs???
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 8:19:32 GMT -5
Dan, They played track after Wind Up as they closed the show, Pat thanks for sharing these!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 8:23:13 GMT -5
No question Tull are one of the tightest live bands ever. Big reason I love them. I have seen them too many times to count since 1977. Of course they could be this tight live. But even for a Tull rehearsal this still sounds like an absolutley perfect tracked recording with studio mixed drums and total silence after the music is stopped. The keys and bass sound direct. I have heard the interviews were Ian talks about recording the band together and the misconceptions etc.. would have been more around the mid 90's after Ian went years with writing and recording demos mostly by himself (you know those are paid sessions) and then the band coming in later on. Likely one at a time also. So if they were rehearsing for a record they would probably rehearse their individual parts to a studio demo of already recorded tracks. Then rehearse for a tour all together to get tight as a band. The biggest factor for me here is the fact that it sounds like a studio recording for sure. You disagree and that's fine. It's probably a combo of both. Somebody probably got this recording by cassette taping a session from a room. Would explain the room sound. I doubt Ian had his master tracks leaked. Whatever, it's cool to hear it. The Crest voting was indeed for recorded finished tracks however i wonder if some of these arrangments made it to one of the songs they never used for the album?
|
|
|
Post by Nonfatman on Apr 6, 2011 9:58:24 GMT -5
John and Mix, that's a fascinating discussion/friendly debate, one of the best I've ever seen on technical issues involving recording. Great stuff!
Jeff
|
|
|
Post by TM on Apr 6, 2011 10:24:13 GMT -5
Demo 5 of Budapest contains quite a bit of Dogs in the Midwinter. Thanks for these. Really enjoying them. Yes, I heard that as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 10:35:30 GMT -5
John and Mix, that's a fascinating discussion/friendly debate, one of the best I've ever seen on technical issues involving recording. Great stuff! Jeff I just wish my tinnitus wasn't so bad! ;D
|
|
|
Post by TM on Apr 6, 2011 10:37:40 GMT -5
if say, pegg was recording his bass lines on to an unmixed multitrack recording he would have the levels set however he wanted to hear what he wanted to hear. I run a studio & do much mixing and always am adjusting levels for different parts of the tracks. Plus this does not sound like live music. What would they be rehearsing for? They hardley ever all played live in the studio. During this time I don't think they did atall. If it was a rehearsal it's the most perfect rehearsal I have ever heard. The room sound could be a reverb or this could be a room recording of some studio tracks being played in a room. But to my ears It's defiently studio recordings. You can also hear the tom mics mixed near-pefectly. During the time before Crest Tull had listening parties for select fans who were played many new tracks including some that didn't make the lp. The fans got to vote for their favorites. I have several close friends who attended these and therefore have their names on the inner sleeve of the Crest vinyl. I will play these for them to see if they remember anything like this. Hi John, and welcome to the board. I was at the listening party, and can tell you that what we heard came out on the CD, minus Raising Steam. We didn't hear any additional material, and the only change (besides the addition of Raising Steam) was the instrumental before Waking Edge was a separate untitled track at that time.
|
|
|
Post by TM on Apr 6, 2011 10:38:58 GMT -5
I'm totally up for being corrected if I'm wrong but my money is still on this being live. Having seen Tull only a couple of weeks ago I was reminded by just how tight they are as a band. This does sound like a live band to me. I think there is a misconception about Ian and recording in that he lays his parts down to a click track and has the rest of the guys email their parts in. While this may be true for a few tracks, complicated arrangements like Budapest need to be worked out as a band. Ian has said on many occasions when asked about getting all the guys in the same room to record that this is in fact what they do and have always done. He even has a couple of cottages on his estate for the guys to stay in when recording. They would be rehearsing to get this music right before recording. You've obviously need ever seen Tull play live It takes a lot of work to get a band that tight. The only way to do it is to rehearse, A LOT Its too dry to be a digital reverb. Its a natural room reverb for sure. Good point, this could be true. I might be wrong but I thought they got to vote on recorded/finished tracks that would make the album, not unrecorded songs??? You are right Mix, all the tracks were finished.
|
|
|
Post by tootull on Apr 6, 2011 11:07:27 GMT -5
Rock on! Thank You! Interesting! The Grammy demos. We didn't hear any additional material, and the only change (besides the addition of Raising Steam) was the instrumental before Waking Edge was a separate untitled track at that time. Explains this; interesting that The Waking Edge (intro) was included in concert as a separate piece. 19/11/87 Maple Leaf Gardens Toronto, Canada Songs From The Wood, Thick As A Brick/Steel Monkey, Farm On The Freeway/Heavy Horses, Living In The Past/Serenade To A Cuckoo, Budapest, Hunting Girl, The Waking Edge (intro)/'Classical' Instrumental/Keyboard Solo/Drum Solo, Wond'ring Aloud, Skating Away..., Jump Start, Too Old To Rock'N'Roll..., Aqualung, Locomotive Breath/Thick As A Brick (reprise), Wind Up www.ministry-of-information.co.uk/setlist/index.htm
|
|
|
Post by TM on Apr 6, 2011 11:20:10 GMT -5
Rock on! Thank You! Interesting! The Grammy demos. We didn't hear any additional material, and the only change (besides the addition of Raising Steam) was the instrumental before Waking Edge was a separate untitled track at that time. Explains this; interesting that The Waking Edge (intro) was included in concert as a separate piece. 19/11/87 Maple Leaf Gardens Toronto, Canada Songs From The Wood, Thick As A Brick/Steel Monkey, Farm On The Freeway/Heavy Horses, Living In The Past/Serenade To A Cuckoo, Budapest, Hunting Girl, The Waking Edge (intro)/'Classical' Instrumental/Keyboard Solo/Drum Solo, Wond'ring Aloud, Skating Away..., Jump Start, Too Old To Rock'N'Roll..., Aqualung, Locomotive Breath/Thick As A Brick (reprise), Wind Up www.ministry-of-information.co.uk/setlist/index.htm Hmmm....I wanted to say that I would have liked to have heard that but apparently I did twice!
|
|
|
Post by tootull on Apr 6, 2011 11:47:15 GMT -5
Hmmm....I wanted to say that I would have liked to have heard that but apparently I did twice! Ah memory! This calls for a slightly blurry tour patch. ...and a much clearer tour pin... eh.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 16:32:29 GMT -5
Ahhh..TM thanks.. of course at the time it was an LP only and didn't include "Walking Edge" or "Dogs in Midwinter". And wasn't "Part of the Machine" from these sessions?
|
|
|
Post by TM on Apr 6, 2011 19:34:14 GMT -5
Ahhh..TM thanks.. of course at the time it was an LP only and didn't include "Walking Edge" or "Dogs in Midwinter". And wasn't "Part of the Machine" from these sessions? That's right. I was actually very upset thinking that those songs had not made the "cut." But thankfully they showed up on the CD. Part of the Machine was recorded later. 1988 I believe, with Maartin Allcock playing guitar on that track.
|
|
|
Post by Nonfatman on Apr 6, 2011 23:07:18 GMT -5
Wow, I've heard many years ago about a rumoured 20-something minute long Budapest, but after searching for it for quite some time, I almost discarded that as an unfounded rumour. Fortunately, it wasn't such, and now I've heard it. Thanks a lot for posting it! Welcome to The Jethro Tull Board, Jordevi, we're very happy you have joined us here! I'm glad that you enjoyed the Budapest demo, and if you look through the board, you will find a lot of other very unusual, interesting and funny things about Tull. So dig in and have a blast! Talk later, Jeff
|
|
Bwanabob
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 66
|
Post by Bwanabob on Apr 7, 2011 6:39:15 GMT -5
I seem to recall a scene from the Fish & Sheep & Rock'n'Roll documentary where Ian is recording some stuff that sounds a lot like Part3. Key difference was that he was also humming along with what he was playing on keyboards. Maybe the humming was mic-ed?
|
|
Cousin Jack
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 55
|
Post by Cousin Jack on Apr 7, 2011 9:54:35 GMT -5
I seem to recall a scene from the Fish & Sheep & Rock'n'Roll documentary where Ian is recording some stuff that sounds a lot like Part3. Key difference was that he was also humming along with what he was playing on keyboards. Maybe the humming was mic-ed? think what your looking for is here
|
|
|
Post by TM on Apr 7, 2011 11:48:38 GMT -5
I seem to recall a scene from the Fish & Sheep & Rock'n'Roll documentary where Ian is recording some stuff that sounds a lot like Part3. Key difference was that he was also humming along with what he was playing on keyboards. Maybe the humming was mic-ed? Hey Bob, I was expecting to hear that too, but it's not the case. Part of that may have been to Farm On The Freeway....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 15:24:07 GMT -5
I assume the vocals and flute are the last to be recorded over the band demos.
|
|
Bwanabob
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 66
|
Post by Bwanabob on Apr 7, 2011 19:58:06 GMT -5
I seem to recall a scene from the Fish & Sheep & Rock'n'Roll documentary where Ian is recording some stuff that sounds a lot like Part3. Key difference was that he was also humming along with what he was playing on keyboards. Maybe the humming was mic-ed? think what your looking for is here The clip I'm thinking of is not is this segment - If I have time I'll watch the next one which probably is the one.
|
|
Bwanabob
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 66
|
Post by Bwanabob on Apr 7, 2011 19:59:52 GMT -5
Yup, the beginning of part 6.
|
|
|
Post by grassysound on Apr 19, 2011 19:42:11 GMT -5
Wonderful stuff, and a million thank you's for sharing.
Is there a plan to make a torrent of this material to Tull fans, or perhaps allow a way for us to have it on CD?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 6:31:43 GMT -5
Here's a little bit more of the rare and wonderful stuff....
Hope you enjoy this board's Holiday present to you.
The dancers are once again Pan's People, the music is in need of release.
|
|