alung
Claghornist
Posts: 5
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Post by alung on Apr 20, 2011 18:05:28 GMT -5
I received this back in 2002. I was told that any 'keepers' of this disc should never make it public until the 'Chief' says so. Either Pat went against the chiefs orders or he got permish.... Anyway....since the cat is outta the bag.... I have posted a torrent of 'The Grail" here: thepiratebay.org/torrent/6332732 ....and I plan now to Tree it to the entire Tull community.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 18:48:54 GMT -5
I received this back in 2002. I was told that any 'keepers' of this disc should never make it public until the 'Chief' says so. Either Pat went against the chiefs orders or he got permish.... ....and I plan now to Tree it to the entire Tull community. Who's 'The Chief'? Having never had any 'orders' I can't see how I or anyone else never having orders from any 'chief' could have gone against them.
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alung
Claghornist
Posts: 5
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Post by alung on Apr 20, 2011 19:16:04 GMT -5
well then it must have been given to you by one of the few selected 'keepers' of the disc without the warning instructions and they are responsible for it 'getting out'.
Care to reveal your source?
ps: hope you folks have good cookie handlers....cause this site is full of'm
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Post by Dan on Apr 20, 2011 19:32:51 GMT -5
I received this back in 2002. I was told that any 'keepers' of this disc should never make it public until the 'Chief' says so. Either Pat went against the chiefs orders or he got permish.... Anyway....since the cat is outta the bag.... I have posted a torrent of 'The Grail" here: thepiratebay.org/torrent/6332732 ....and I plan now to Tree it to the entire Tull community. Do not click on this link! Totally screwed up my computer!
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alung
Claghornist
Posts: 5
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Post by alung on Apr 20, 2011 20:15:34 GMT -5
yeah....I guess the 30 ppl downloading this right now better watch out. LoL Maybe its not the pc but the operator.
Thepiratebay.org has a lot of pop=ups and cookies....best to manually deal with cookies than your web browser anyway. It does make the torrent site experience much more enjoyable.
Your pc is prolly already cookiefied from proboards. ; )
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Post by grassysound on Apr 21, 2011 13:16:53 GMT -5
One of the great qualities about these recordings is hearing Doane on drums. Real drums on Steel Monkey! (or the Miami Vice theme, as my wife calls this instrumental version!)
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Post by Blue on Apr 21, 2011 16:13:08 GMT -5
Pirate Bay? YUK! That's the file sharing outfit that refused to remove autopsy photos of two murdered Swedish children back in ...... 2008. I'd think you could pick up some very nasty computer crud there.
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jrpipik
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
There was a little boy stood on a burning log, rubbing his hands with glee
Posts: 193
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 21, 2011 17:57:35 GMT -5
For my money these are Ian Anderson's original demos. I get the sense from the playing, that it's not the guys used on the album itself. The leads in "Budapest" don't sound sharp enough to be Barre and I know from interviews that Anderson took great pride in arranging that one.
But the tape is probably many generations removed from the original, as shown by the difference in key from the tape speed.
And yeah, parts of the songs left off the vinyl sound a lot like parts of the ones that made it. I assumed that's why they were left off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2011 18:18:37 GMT -5
You can't be suggesting that Martin is not playing on this demo?? That's Martin without any doubt! It's not as sharp because it is a Demo..These are Ian's home demos. Ian played Keyboards on this stuff. Everything is in a lower Key than the album also(makes it easier to sing) but that's Definetly Martin and Peggy! Who's on drums? My guess is Gerry Conway since doane only played on 2 tracks of the album.
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jrpipik
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
There was a little boy stood on a burning log, rubbing his hands with glee
Posts: 193
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 21, 2011 20:33:31 GMT -5
I'd bet good money that's Anderson on "Steel Monkey," since he plays the rhythm part on the album as well. And I don't hear any of the telltale Barre work on either song, either the blistering fast leads or the sonic play. The leads on "Budapest" sound like Anderson saying, "Your bit goes here, Marty. I'm sure you'll do it better than this but you get the idea." (Despite his own protests, Anderson is quite a good guitar player, certainly capable of this level of work -- ditto bass.) I say this in part because I recall interviews where Anderson says he put the album together in great detail before getting the rest of the band involved. I think that's why Barre enjoyed it so much: he got to just show up and do his thing. On several of the songs he's credited not with electric (as on other albums) but with lead guitar, while Anderson gets an unusual number of electric guitar credits. It seems to me you don't do your demos in a lower key to teach them to your band (1) if you want them to be ready to play in a higher key on the album and (2) if you're not singing on the demos anyway. I think this is a classic case of each machine copying the song slightly slower than the last. I have no idea who Anderson would get to do drum demos. I've never heard that he played drums himself, though he does get frequent percussion credits (or non-credits, as on "Locomotive Breath"). I know he uses machines sometimes but these drums sound pretty live to me. You can't be suggesting that Martin is not playing on this demo?? That's Martin without any doubt! It's not as sharp because it is a Demo..These are Ian's home demos. Ian played Keyboards on this stuff. Everything is in a lower Key than the album also(makes it easier to sing) but that's Definetly Martin and Peggy! Who's on drums? My guess is Gerry Conway since doane only played on 2 tracks of the album.
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Post by Nonfatman on Apr 21, 2011 21:59:23 GMT -5
I'd bet good money that's Anderson on "Steel Monkey," since he plays the rhythm part on the album as well. And I don't hear any of the telltale Barre work on either song, either the blistering fast leads or the sonic play. The leads on "Budapest" sound like Anderson saying, "Your bit goes here, Marty. I'm sure you'll do it better than this but you get the idea." (Despite his own protests, Anderson is quite a good guitar player, certainly capable of this level of work -- ditto bass.) I say this in part because I recall interviews where Anderson says he put the album together in great detail before getting the rest of the band involved. I think that's why Barre enjoyed it so much: he got to just show up and do his thing. On several of the songs he's credited not with electric (as on other albums) but with lead guitar, while Anderson gets an unusual number of electric guitar credits. It seems to me you don't do your demos in a lower key to teach them to your band (1) if you want them to be ready to play in a higher key on the album and (2) if you're not singing on the demos anyway. I think this is a classic case of each machine copying the song slightly slower than the last. I have no idea who Anderson would get to do drum demos. I've never heard that he played drums himself, though he does get frequent percussion credits (or non-credits, as on "Locomotive Breath"). I know he uses machines sometimes but these drums sound pretty live to me. You can't be suggesting that Martin is not playing on this demo?? That's Martin without any doubt! It's not as sharp because it is a Demo..These are Ian's home demos. Ian played Keyboards on this stuff. Everything is in a lower Key than the album also(makes it easier to sing) but that's Definetly Martin and Peggy! Who's on drums? My guess is Gerry Conway since doane only played on 2 tracks of the album. Jim, I think Tulltapes was probably referring to the most recent COAK demo, the one with the dancers just posted the other day, which is clearly Martin. Jeff
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jrpipik
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
There was a little boy stood on a burning log, rubbing his hands with glee
Posts: 193
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 21, 2011 22:11:48 GMT -5
I see. I was referring to the earlier discussion about whether the COAK tapes were group rehearsals or demos, which I was late for the party for but wanted to toss in my tuppence. - J
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jrpipik
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
There was a little boy stood on a burning log, rubbing his hands with glee
Posts: 193
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 21, 2011 22:20:20 GMT -5
I just watched the dancers video. That sounds more like a jam session of some kind, no real arrangement at all. If I heard it out of the blue I wouldn't even have thought it was Tull.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 2:37:33 GMT -5
I was referring to the original Crest demos posted here. (The other one with the dancers sounds like a rehearsal recording.) I think you generally start off in the key that's easiest for you to work with and then either keep it or change it as the song develops. Changing a key up or down is common in the writing process. I'm sure you know that nowadays the keys go lower and lower almost every time I see Tull play.
I recall where Ian said he wanted to write Crest on his own without input from the band. He wrote all the chords, arrangements, and basic melodies then the band would record the final parts. But i'm sure there were demos for even the final parts. Ian's parts are eventually replaced by the individual band members. This sounds like something like that. This could have been recorded with the intent of being a finalized at some point, however we know it was obviously also scrapped and rearranged. This must be a later stage of someones working demo. Ian is one of the most unique, underated, guitarists ever.. however there can be no mistaken for Martin's guitar playing and tone. Peggy either. Listen to the guitar dive bombs on Budapest or the fast delicate acoustic section. Or the extreme pinch harmonics on Mountain Men. Ian's great on guitar and bass but he can't cop Martin and Peggy's style that good.
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Post by grassysound on Apr 22, 2011 9:14:18 GMT -5
I tweaked it up a bit after downloading it. I faded things in and out where they abruptly ended/began, and raised the volume on each segment. I didn't do any remastering though. I also took out the two live tracks, as they don't seem relevant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 17:34:18 GMT -5
Here is the dogs in midwinter section played live in 1987
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Post by Dan on Apr 22, 2011 21:11:04 GMT -5
Here is the dogs in midwinter section played live in 1987 Thanks I couldn't weed through my tapes to find out which concert this was from. For some reason, I just thought it was a Don Airey contribution to the ending. Dan
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Post by pantagruel on Apr 23, 2011 10:36:27 GMT -5
I can't and I don't want to click on the TPB link as it's blocked in Italy. What has been posted there?
Also thanks Quizz Kid for making this available. I've always been fascinated by studio outtakes than anything else. I sure hope some albums will get a "making of" treatment rerelease, with songs in progress, studio outtakes, rough mixes and stuff like that. I love this kind of stuff!
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alung
Claghornist
Posts: 5
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Post by alung on Apr 23, 2011 20:03:40 GMT -5
For some unknown reason the torrent I uploaded will only seed to 99.9% I uploaded a new file to fix this. thepiratebay.org/torrent/6340003I heard that the other still works though....wierd.
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Post by pantagruel on Apr 24, 2011 8:16:32 GMT -5
Can you tell me what the hell is the torrent you posted? Pirate Bay is not available in Italy anymore and I'm afraid my IP will be registered if I click the link
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Post by Nonfatman on Apr 24, 2011 8:37:30 GMT -5
Can you tell me what the hell is the torrent you posted? Pirate Bay is not available in Italy anymore and I'm afraid my IP will be registered if I click the link You are correct not to click on the link, Pantagruel, as it appears that there are a lot of legal issues involving that site. I advise all members here not to click on that link, and I ask Alung to please stop posting the Pirate Bay link on this board. I'm sure he didn't do this intentionally, but was simply unaware of the potential dangers in doing so. Jeff
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Post by TM on Apr 24, 2011 9:22:57 GMT -5
Can you tell me what the hell is the torrent you posted? Pirate Bay is not available in Italy anymore and I'm afraid my IP will be registered if I click the link Per Wikipedia: Italy In mid 2008, following the criminal charges raised in Sweden, the Italian Federation against Musical Piracy in Milan requested action in Italy. The deputy public prosecutor pursued the complaint in the Bergamo Court for Preliminary Investigations, which on 1 August 2008 decreed to block access from Italian ISPs to all Pirate Bay addresses.[146][147] The ruling was based on prevention of copyright violations by the site's users in Italian territory.[148] Once the block had been put in effect, The Pirate Bay responded on 10 August 2008 by posting instructions to work around the block and later by creating a separate site for Italians, but shortly afterwards the ISPs also blocked the alternate site.[149] Some ISPs had implemented the block by redirecting The Pirate Bay traffic to a site owned by the IFPI.[150] Italian security expert Matteo Flora suggested that by having the page redirected this way, IFPI could access Italian users' cookies and impersonate them on the official The Pirate Bay website.[151] Two Italian IT lawyers Giovanni Battista Gallus and Francesco Micozzi together with Matteo Flora appealed to the Bergamo court, which reviewed the case and on 24 September 2008 quashed the original ruling.[152] The decision lifting the block was based on the applicability of the "preventive seizure" section of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure, which cannot force actions on parties unrelated to the potential offence (ISPs to filter users' traffic).[148] With the April 2009 verdict in Sweden as a precedent, the Bergamo prosecutor appealed the Italian ruling in the Supreme Court of Cassation to reinstate the block.[153][154] In September 2009, the Supreme Court annulled the decision to overturn the block, and the case was again reviewed in the Bergamo court.[155] On 8 February 2010, the web site has been blocked again by the Italian Supreme Court.[15 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay
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Mttbsh
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
Posts: 115
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Post by Mttbsh on Apr 24, 2011 10:41:16 GMT -5
I know a lot of people felt that Crest was something of a "comeback" album for Tull, but I never liked it. Yes, Budapest has some nice arrangements but Steel Monkey and the like sound like an average bar band with a guitarist doing his best to imitate Billy Gibbons. I always thought Barre was a better guitarist than Gibbons but it seems like he kind of lost his way there for a a few years.
Compared to the maginificent, imaginative Stand Up and other earlier Tull works I view Crest as a real canard.
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Post by Nonfatman on Apr 24, 2011 10:55:51 GMT -5
I know a lot of people felt that Crest was something of a "comeback" album for Tull, but I never liked it. Yes, Budapest has some nice arrangements but Steel Monkey and the like sound like an average bar band with a guitarist doing his best to imitate Billy Gibbons. I always thought Barre was a better guitarist than Gibbons but it seems like he kind of lost his way there for a a few years. Compared to the maginificent, imaginative Stand Up and other earlier Tull works I view Crest as a real canard. I wouldn't go that far, Matt, but I agree with you, to some extent. I think it was an album of varying quality, with classics like Budapest, Mountain Men, Farm on the Freeway and Jump Start, some other pretty good songs like Dogs in the Midwinter and Said She Was a Dancer. But Steelmonkey, Raising Steam and The Waking Edge were not so good, in my opinion. Still, it was the best Tull offering of the eighties. But, again, that is my opinion. Jeff
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2011 17:42:31 GMT -5
When I think of Crest the first thing I think of is Not Steel Monkey. Even though I remember seeing the video on Mtv when it first came out and thinking it was a great ZZtop imitation. I was confused at the little, thin, beardless, guitar player? Who is that? I thought. Songs like Budapest, Farm on the Freeway, Jumpstart are now Tull classics! It was a comeback album in the sense that it proceeded Underwraps which I like of course but After Steel Monkey Crest gets back to the real drums, acoustic guitars, and more classic sounding Tull arrangments. They were even on the radio again. I remember some big tullheads getting into stuff like aqualung etc..by hearing Crest for the first time. It's a great Tull album! and it won them a grammy and put them back in the spotlight for a bit.
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