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Post by Nonfatman on Oct 29, 2009 9:56:24 GMT -5
Ian used to express disdain for audience members who were under the influence of drugs. So why would he go out of his way to include such trippy lyrics as The Hare Who Lost His Spectacles (or for that matter, any of the Passion Play lyrics), and also interject certain sound effects throughout the album that he must have known would appeal to audience members and fans who took acid or LSD in order to "enhance" their listening experience? Was the entire album intended as a cynical joke on the seventies drug culture, as if to say, "okay, that is what you want, so here it is...."?
Jeff
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Post by TM on Oct 29, 2009 10:47:22 GMT -5
Good point, and one that would seems difficult to argue. At the time of TAAB and APP you can't help but get the impression that there was some sort of drug influence going on. Just listening to Ian speak back in the 70's, you could easily think the man was stoned or on something. Not so much in the of the content of what he said, but in the style - the lack of emotion and tone in which he spoke.
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Post by bobo the monkey on Oct 29, 2009 20:22:34 GMT -5
The Hare story always seemed to me to be pretty direct metaphor for the seekers of the 60's...looking high and low, with advisers of the day (gurus)...for spirituality...which was inside all along...no?
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Post by Mothfairy on Oct 29, 2009 22:13:19 GMT -5
I don't get that from these albums or The Hare. I see the albums, or moreso, the lyrics as being intellectual, obscure on purpose, eccentric. To me he seemed full of emotion, but that could be just the way I perceived him. When I was watching ye olde 25th annviersary DVD and when Witches Promise was on, my parents were there and insisting that Ian was a druggy due to his odd faces, grimaces, bugging eyes and gestures. I insisted that this was his eccentricity. I have had very eccentric friends, so I'm just very familiar with the type. I do find APP to be spiritual. As for the Hare, I was never really clear on that but I did read about it, I think it mentioned how in the Hare it's referring to people not minding their own business and getting caught up in solving other's problems, (could be spirituality) like the characters are looking for ways to help hare constantly, and in the end, he didn't need their help (hare did a spare pair)
As for a cynical joke, maybe...I just don't get that impression from it, and to base a whole album on that? Ehh, that just seems really...not funny...maybe though, I don't get that whole British humor thing, so who knows...hah. But the fact Ian showed disdain, I doubt he'd do an album for those types whom he had a dislike for...and as for the sound effects, to me that was a sign of the times. Like those were "the sounds" to use at the time. New. Awesome. Far out. Just like everyone who got married from 1970-1979 has those weird trippy effects done to their wedding pictures...just because they can. That's how I see it though. And you know I am all pretty screwed in the head anyway, so who knows....haha....
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Post by Dan on Oct 30, 2009 0:13:50 GMT -5
I remember someone on Rockline or similar show asking Ian about the meaning of Hare, and his response was , something along the line, "I don't know what the hell it means -it was written by Jeffrey. I'll have to give it another listen."
So maybe that explains the "trippy' impression.
If I was so inclined as to 'trip'-that would have been the show to do it that.
I had a friend who was there and explained how a small white dot appeared on black screen, ( almost unnoticed by the crowd) and kept getting bigger to the 'heartbeat' opening of APP.
I guess I don't read too much into the songs and just got the impression that Hare was about people intruding into your life and tripping over ,trying to find ways to help you ,when you're doing quite well by yourself.
Dan
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Post by Chea on Oct 30, 2009 3:26:01 GMT -5
. When I was watching ye olde 25th annviersary DVD and when Witches Promise was on, my parents were there and insisting that Ian was a druggy due to his odd faces, grimaces, bugging eyes and gestures. I insisted that this was his eccentricity.did a spare pair) . Hallo Mothfairy. As fans what can we say about Ian :(way on stage or during a J.T show?Very few because we know all of his strong personallyty,his so original gestures,his taste for irony ecc. :PI also think it is normal your parents get that impression.In the WP video easyly everybody which does'nt know J.T could get this suspect.I don't believe that,also because his behaviour has changed only in relation of the age...even this year i saw him acting in that way,odd faces,ecc.  |
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Post by Mothfairy on Oct 30, 2009 8:08:34 GMT -5
I remember someone on Rockline or similar show asking Ian about the meaning of Hare, and his response was , something along the line, "I don't know what the hell it means -it was written by Jeffrey. I'll have to give it another listen." So maybe that explains the "trippy' impression. If I was so inclined as to 'trip'-that would have been the show to do it that. I had a friend who was there and explained how a small white dot appeared on black screen, ( almost unnoticed by the crowd) and kept getting bigger to the 'heartbeat' opening of APP. I guess I don't read too much into the songs and just got the impression that Hare was about people intruding into your life and tripping over ,trying to find ways to help you ,when you're doing quite well by yourself. Dan I believe if you have that impression, then you do read into the songs..and maybe you don't realize it. You obviously have read into it enough to have more than a literal translation... And do you really believe Ian doesn't know what it's about? I really don't. Maybe he didn't feel like talking about it that day? I always think of "trippy" music as Phish or the Dead? I do like the Dead...but think of them kind of as what Ian describes as, "simple direct music" that he says he doesn't enjoy playing. Tull I think of as much more intellectual and that most of us who like Tull are semi or fully intellectuals. |
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Post by Nonfatman on Oct 30, 2009 13:09:03 GMT -5
The Hare story always seemed to me to be pretty direct metaphor for the seekers of the 60's...looking high and low, with advisers of the day (gurus)...for spirituality...which was inside all along...no? Unquestionably, that is one of several possible interpretations. My own is very similar...I thought it had to do with the search for religion, or a new religion, i.e., he had lost his own religion and was searching for a different one, but in the end he did not need any new organized religion because he had his own personal religious belief. Similar to the theme of Aqualung. But the point I was making was not that the Passion Play lyrics are gibberish or without any meaning -- I don't believe that at all -- but that the entire album and performance thereof, i.e., the bizarre lyrics, odd voices and sound effects, that steadily increasing heartbeat, those rabbit costumes, the Passion Play video, etc., seem to have been deliberately aimed at the "druggies" of the day, those young people who were taking every hallucinogenic drug under the sun and were stoned out of their minds at the concerts. It was as if Ian were goofing on them, that's why I say the whole thing strikes me as a cynical joke, because Ian disapproved of drugs and those who took them, so what better way to mock them? Why else would he do an album that he must have known was going to appeal to the drugged-out audiences of the period? If the answer is profit rather than mockery, then it still was rather cynical given his well-documented, and I believe genuine, highly negative attitudes toward drugs and drug users. Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on Oct 30, 2009 13:34:02 GMT -5
I don't get that from these albums or The Hare. I see the albums, or moreso, the lyrics as being intellectual, obscure on purpose, eccentric. To me he seemed full of emotion, but that could be just the way I perceived him. When I was watching ye olde 25th annviersary DVD and when Witches Promise was on, my parents were there and insisting that Ian was a druggy due to his odd faces, grimaces, bugging eyes and gestures. I insisted that this was his eccentricity. I have had very eccentric friends, so I'm just very familiar with the type. I do find APP to be spiritual. As for the Hare, I was never really clear on that but I did read about it, I think it mentioned how in the Hare it's referring to people not minding their own business and getting caught up in solving other's problems, (could be spirituality) like the characters are looking for ways to help hare constantly, and in the end, he didn't need their help (hare did a spare pair) As for a cynical joke, maybe...I just don't get that impression from it, and to base a whole album on that? Ehh, that just seems really...not funny...maybe though, I don't get that whole British humor thing, so who knows...hah. But the fact Ian showed disdain, I doubt he'd do an album for those types whom he had a dislike for...and as for the sound effects, to me that was a sign of the times. Like those were "the sounds" to use at the time. New. Awesome. Far out. Just like everyone who got married from 1970-1979 has those weird trippy effects done to their wedding pictures...just because they can. That's how I see it though. And you know I am all pretty screwed in the head anyway, so who knows....haha.... Great post, Holly, you have obviously done a lot of thinking about this album, and I suspect it's your favorite, or one of your favorites. It's never been in my top five personal favorite Tull albums -- it's tied for seventh with A -- but I do think it is fascinating....Ian's most interesting album for sure. And it warrants a lot more discussion on this board. In interviews, Ian has said that the entire Thick As a Brick album was a joke....a parody of the concept album genre. That is why I believe Passion Play was also intended as a joke....but this time a cynical joke on the audiences of the time, many of whom were taking hallucinogens such as acid, LSD, mushrooms, etc., and were stoned off their gourds at the shows. There are other instances in his lyrics where he mocks and berates audience members (referring to them as "static-humming panel beaters" and in other insulting terms on Minstrel and chastising them in the opening lines of Brick), and he has certainly done that at shows as well. I have witnessed it on several occasions. During the seventies, he was not only upset with audiences, but also with critics (Only Solitaire) and the music business in general (Crazed Institution), and he actually "retired" from music for a year. Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on Oct 30, 2009 13:40:18 GMT -5
I remember someone on Rockline or similar show asking Ian about the meaning of Hare, and his response was , something along the line, "I don't know what the hell it means -it was written by Jeffrey. I'll have to give it another listen." So maybe that explains the "trippy' impression. If I was so inclined as to 'trip'-that would have been the show to do it that. I had a friend who was there and explained how a small white dot appeared on black screen, ( almost unnoticed by the crowd) and kept getting bigger to the 'heartbeat' opening of APP. I guess I don't read too much into the songs and just got the impression that Hare was about people intruding into your life and tripping over ,trying to find ways to help you ,when you're doing quite well by yourself. Dan That's right, I had forgotten it was written by Jeffrey. I wonder if he ever took drugs? He was a creative type, so I guess it's possible. Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on Oct 30, 2009 13:51:00 GMT -5
Good point, and one that would seems difficult to argue. At the time of TAAB and APP you can't help but get the impression that there was some sort of drug influence going on. Just listening to Ian speak back in the 70's, you could easily think the man was stoned or on something. Not so much in the of the content of what he said, but in the style - the lack of emotion and tone in which he spoke. I know exactly what you mean, especially during early seventies interviews where he seemed focused on what he was saying, yet oddly detached. To me it seemed like he as trying very hard to come across as erudite. However, I take him at his word and do not believe that he ever used or even tried any drugs. Perhaps he was just trying to create the impression, with his clothes, hair, antics, demeanor, etc., that he was on drugs because that kind of thing was very popular with audiences and the music press in those days, and maybe he wanted to dispel the "Jethro Dull" label. I really don't know. Jeff |
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Post by King Heath on Nov 9, 2009 17:03:51 GMT -5
During the seventies, he was not only upset with audiences, but also with critics (Only Solitaire) and the music business in general (Crazed Institution), and he actually "retired" from music for a year. Jeff Hi Jeff, I'm afraid that is a myth. In fact IA has oftened stated that he was very upset by the fact that Chrysalis had announced Tull's retirement from the music business due to the harsh critique they received for APP. He didn't give a toss. And if he would have given it up for a year when did he write and record "Only Solitaire"? Apart from the constant touring of the time. They toured almost constantly from February to the end of September 1973 and had their first few months off in 6 years. And in Spring 1974 they started recording WarChild. By the way there is quite an interesting interpretation of APP on this website. You will find that the lyrics aren't that far out. www.ministry-of-information.co.uk/app/index.htmKH |
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Post by Nonfatman on Nov 9, 2009 17:11:40 GMT -5
During the seventies, he was not only upset with audiences, but also with critics (Only Solitaire) and the music business in general (Crazed Institution), and he actually "retired" from music for a year. Jeff Hi Jeff, I'm afraid that is a myth. In fact IA has oftened stated that he was very upset by the fact that Chrysalis had announced Tull's retirement from the music business due to the harsh critique they received for APP. He didn't give a toss. And if he would have given it up for a year when did he write and record "Only Solitaire"? Apart from the constant touring of the time. They toured almost constantly from February to the end of September 1973 and had their first few months off in 6 years. And in Spring 1974 they started recording WarChild. By the way there is quite an interesting interpretation of APP on this website. You will find that the lyrics aren't that far out. www.ministry-of-information.co.uk/app/index.htmKH Thanks, King Heath, what you say makes a lot of sense, and admittedly, I am not that great of a historian of the band. I am aware of the line-by-line analysis of Passion Play on The Ministry, and at various points in time have read portions of it, but not for quite awhile. I will definitely revisit it. Thanks, again. Jeff |
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