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Post by jtul07 on Jun 27, 2012 6:06:55 GMT -5
Can anyone say anything about Martin Barre around here without someone puckering up to Ian's ass? Geez!
And others trying to conclude that because Mr. golden locks can copy Martin's style that anybody can do his job.
Martin thanks you all for brushing him off so quickly after so long.. How could you blame Martin for not doing much else musically? he's been chained to Ian like a slave for 45 years.
Jim I guess I've been asleep since 2007 because I will not consider hired musicians as JETHRO TULL. John you are very emotional about this. I'm sure you've been puckering up to Martin for a long time too.
Mr. Golden Locks (Florian) has played with Ian since 2003. He has his own style. This is 2012 so I assume you realize how times have changed. Ian has a new album. Martin has his greatest hits with some rehashed Tull tunes and Excalibur part 2.
It doesn't matter what you call it. Jethro Tull or Ian/Tull or Candy Coloured Rain. This is the best music made in 2012 with or without Sir Martin Barre. I'm not brushing anyone off. I eagerly await his new tour and hopefully NEW album with NEW material.
Now about Master Ian and his loyal Slave Martin. Have you been watching "Gone with the Wind"? My wife loves that movie, but it's just a movie.
If you can find a store that sells Bee Pollen Caps, that should help with the sleeping problem. I don't like caffeine or Red Bull or 5 hour energy drinks.P.S. I love all the Tull Videos you have created and hope to see more. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 13:09:44 GMT -5
Darin, Putting the genius thing aside, the reality is that from the time Mick left the band, Ian has been the creative force behind it, and the others have always been in a supporting role. Yes there was more to watch in the old days, there was more energy, but the quality of material and playing is much higher now. The sad fact is, and few seem to want to address it, is Martin has not demonstrated any creativity on his own, in Tull and outside, just look at the sad attempt to be a cover band for Ian's music. It is time to leave the nest, he can't. You say you can't wait to see what he does, and that is the problem, you'll be waiting a long time for anything original beyond him covering Ian's stuff. It comes down to whether the composer, the visionary, is more integral to the whole than the players who breath life into the vision. In my opinion (clearly not shared by all), the vision trumps the players. The world is full of excellent session musicians....most of whom will never be any more than that. Do people remember Beethoven, or the first violin? I agree with most of what your saying here BUT there's a difference between a session player that's hired to learn a song verbatim from a recording (as their doing with TAAB right now, very well I might add) and someone who has to translate a spoken idea into music ala the guys that recorded those records. Their input is a a big bunch of fingerprints all over Ian's songs, he's said as much in recent years, Barrie on TAAB has been talked about. This can't be understated or overlooked. One set of musicians may have caused Ian's songs to take on one set of characteristics over another. Ian was not a "writer" in a strict musical sense like a Zappa or even a Beethoven. Zappa has said many times that the people in the band played an important role in how a song came out. The difference being that Frank allowed for a lot of improv whereas Tulls was more limited, more over time as new people came in acting as session players. Now they all are. The fact that Martin was still a member was probably more and more uncomfortable for him as he had become part of a Tull "hit machine" on tour thru the late 90's into the 00's. Yes we are all here because Ian is one of the most unique writers and performers in rock. As he loses his voice we might and do hope he relies more on the instrumental side of Tull, that would be an acceptable path to me and to have one or some of the original "fingerprints" to help in that regard....but no. Ian seems to be stubbornly pushing forward as a singer songwriter that can't really sing anymore. I only hope that Ian has the good sense to not perform SFTW ever again. I hope I don't sound like I'm on a "side" here. I think this arguing is pretty silly. I like to think I can read pretty well and I have never heard or read Martin Barre whining or complaining about Ian or being fired. I've only heard him trying to promote his own project and beset by questions about what's happened..... I'm patient I'm sure at some point Martin will "put up" Darin Cody
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Post by housebrick on Jun 27, 2012 13:48:24 GMT -5
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Post by housebrick on Jun 27, 2012 13:50:11 GMT -5
OK let's deal with the facts. I never said I don't like Martin, I do, and have in over 65 shows over the last 40+ years on both sides of the ocean. I enjoyed the same three ring circus described above, and his passion for playing Ian's music. But he does not stand up on his own, and I think much of the energy of old was more the Blackpool boys than Martin. The decline in the performances is due to age and the departure of JHH, JE, and BB. Let's not forget Martin was there all along, so it can't be put on Ian alone. Ian's voice sucks, I have said this before, but mostly I go to hear them play music, in some ways his lack of voice has forced him to be a better player. Everyone always says what Martin brings to the table is obvious but they don't point to specifics, because Martin has failed to provide them amo. The only reason people see him as integral to Tull is because he has been a fixture. Had Ian swapped him out with the othersaround the A album, this discussion would be different. Darin as to his output, let's be real, here is a man complaining about regurgitation and he releases a cd with old shit, and three questionable additions. As for the speed of his material, the reality is that TAAB2 came out in less time since Rupi than any offering of new materials Martin will deliver. Let's not forget the orchestral cd, the solo tours, the Rubbing Elbows. All the while Martin sitting on his laurels, doing nothing musically other than playing Ian's (please lets not talk about Excalibur), never complaining about the set list, never stretching his musical wings, never anything. All of a sudden he gets fired, yes an asshole move, but it's show biz, he always said he an Ian were all business, he didn't suffer the romantic illusions some on this board do. All of a sudden he has the need to get involved in his musical career, but with what? Now he is gonna go on the road with the legends, do five of Ian's songs with a new organ grinder, same act for him. I unders The issue is would there be a Tull without Ian, no. Would there be a Tull without Martin, he'll ya! I want him to succeed, but he won't on his current path, he needs to move past Ian's music, and then he can talk. For now he needs to put up, or shut up! The Martin assasin strikes yet again Sound just like a broken record with a needle stuck in the groove Give it a rest FFS!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 14:41:24 GMT -5
Darin, Putting the genius thing aside, the reality is that from the time Mick left the band, Ian has been the creative force behind it, and the others have always been in a supporting role. Yes there was more to watch in the old days, there was more energy, but the quality of material and playing is much higher now. The sad fact is, and few seem to want to address it, is Martin has not demonstrated any creativity on his own, in Tull and outside, just look at the sad attempt to be a cover band for Ian's music. It is time to leave the nest, he can't. You say you can't wait to see what he does, and that is the problem, you'll be waiting a long time for anything original beyond him covering Ian's stuff. Nags, I get that you don't like Martin Barre.........so what. You could name 50 guitarists that could blow him away musically?.......so what. He's the guy "I" enjoyed seeing with Tull. That was the only point I was making. Sad it's not so anymore. Besides......how many guitarists could Ian convince to come share the stage with that limited little gravelly voice of his? He's probably paying Florian and the guys more than they were getting at whatever they were doing before. If Ian makes me cringe listening to him trying to sing "Songs From The Wood" on one night, I wonder what it would be like to be up there on stage every night trying to play your best. I will settle for this kind of stuff all night long. Or this Or Darin By golly I think Darin totally "get's it!" AWESOME VIDS!
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Post by jtul07 on Jun 27, 2012 15:28:28 GMT -5
Actually Jim I moved on about this long ago but every time i drop in it's the same ol' shit for months now. Major Martin bashing. This is supposed to be where the real TULL fans are? Give him a break huh? I like TAAB2 but it's just a good Ian solo record. The Ian band is not Jethro Tull! Those are facts blah blah blah. They are decent enough guys who will do what they are told and play the music just as Ian wants them too but why all the gushing for a hired backup band?
Leif Garrett has been with Ian since 2003? Well it's 2012 and he sounds just like Martin Barre. It's 2012 and there is No Barre, just his exact style and sound.
Why do you want a NEW Martin solo record so bad? So you can bash it and compare to Ian's masterpieces? A new Martin solo record is just more amo for Yourself and Nags. I don't wish to have to kiss Martin's ass either but I also don't want is his past 45 years of work (which i enjoyed) to be diminished and brushed off because someone can totally nick his style.
If you guys love Ian and his fab new band so much then why do you spend so much time hammering Martin Barre? You're foolishly trying to compare martin to Ian as writers. Nobody here is that stoopid are they? I can only imagine that you know it frustrates some of us who actually liked him all along.
Now Pucker Up! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Nice ;DIt occurs to me that the understanding of my true feelings is somehow lost. I don't bash Martin for anything other than complaining about Ian's voice or set lists.
I don't recall ever bashing Martin's albums before, but you may know I have all of them except the new compilation album. I even have live Willie Porter and Martin Barre on cd plus Willie Porter and Tull. I don't even have the Ian Collection which came out several years ago.
Now as for Leif Opahle, you seem a little miffed about his Rock n' Roll Hair. Maybe I think he just looks like someone that cares about what he is doing more than others. That is why I like him and his beautiful Gibson Les Paul ( Custom ) E-Gitarre. His contribution to Tull is being made now and it does not matter what anyone else calls it.
I don't try to be personal except to remind everyone what has evolved over 44 years. Some of us want to go backward in time, some of us do not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 17:05:34 GMT -5
Now as for Leif Opahle, you seem a little miffed about his Rock n' Roll Hair. Maybe I think he just looks like someone that cares about what he is doing more than others. That is why I like him and his beautiful Gibson Les Paul ( Custom ) E-Gitarre.
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Post by jtul07 on Jun 27, 2012 18:18:05 GMT -5
Well, I do see a slight resemblance somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 19:27:44 GMT -5
My two cents not that it matters I never thought I would hear this kind of shall we say disturbing conversation going on about Martin. I have far better things to do than want to participate in all of this bashing. I think I will sit this one out for awhile longer and see if this resolves it self. I have to say without Martin there is no Tull Ian said so in a 1993 interview. So is this now the Ian Anderson board or the Jethro Tull board, because the way this sounds is that there can not be both. Sad to say I will take a break from all of this,I have met a lot a great folks here, I will still drop by from time to time.
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Nags
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Post by Nags on Jun 27, 2012 20:10:24 GMT -5
Actually Jim I moved on about this long ago but every time i drop in it's the same ol' shit for months now. Major Martin bashing. This is supposed to be where the real TULL fans are? Give him a break huh? I like TAAB2 but it's just a good Ian solo record. The Ian band is not Jethro Tull! Those are facts blah blah blah. They are decent enough guys who will do what they are told and play the music just as Ian wants them too but why all the gushing for a hired backup band? Leif Garrett has been with Ian since 2003? Well it's 2012 and he sounds just like Martin Barre. It's 2012 and there is No Barre, just his exact style and sound. Why do you want a NEW Martin solo record so bad? So you can bash it and compare to Ian's masterpieces? A new Martin solo record is just more amo for Yourself and Nags. I don't wish to have to kiss Martin's ass either but I also don't want is his past 45 years of work (which i enjoyed) to be diminished and brushed off because someone can totally nick his style. If you guys love Ian and his fab new band so much then why do you spend so much time hammering Martin Barre? You're foolishly trying to compare martin to Ian as writers. Nobody here is that stoopid are they? I can only imagine that you know it frustrates some of us who actually liked him all along. Now Pucker Up! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If we can get past the selective reading, and deal with facts, you’ll see that the only times I jump in and criticize Martin is when he plays the “woe is me” role. In the process presenting himself as some sort of champion for Tull fans, left to be abused by Ian and his endless regurgitation. He does not speak for Tull fans, and I don’t like his patronizing. I find it dishonest and disingenuous, first in November he suggested that he left he is out because of among other things the set lists, then he tells us he was fired. I don’t like to be played, and that is what he is doing. What is back firing is that solid track record for doing nothing. Again, he tells his fans he is going to the USA in May to talk gigs, then he reports on Facebook what a great time he had driving around the country side, what happened to the gigs? Let’s be real, few people miss Martin, if you took everyone on this board, we would fill maybe two rows at a 2012 Tull gig, take out those of us who see this as the latest iteration of an evolving band, and frankly not many left. As for what Ian said in 1993, please, how many divorces have taken place by board members since? Being someone who creates content, I can understand why Ian told those who don’t like what he is doing to fuck off, over the years he has always said that he is out to please himself creatively, it is just a good thing it aligns with his band’s fans. All the talk about TAAB2, poor Martin and all that just distracts from the issue at hand, the music. Again, had he been discarded in the 1979 purge, this discussion woul not take place, but he stuck around, why? Again, I like Martin, he is a god guitar guy, but he has to shut up, and do something. Tulltapes, I think the he has been cut a lot of slack, but just refuses to take advantage of it, which is why the whinging is so boring, and I would argue what I thought was beneath him. As for puckering up, do you think they are looking to replace Martin for that too? But I guess absent facts, it is what one can expect, yup, you’re a Martin kinda guy. Time to put up, or.... Over and out, I gotta get back to 2012.
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Post by TM on Jun 27, 2012 20:16:05 GMT -5
My two cents not that it matters I never thought I would hear this kind of shall we say disturbing conversation going on about Martin. I have far better things to do than want to participate in all of this bashing. I think I will sit this one out for awhile longer and see if this resolves it self. I have to say without Martin there is no Tull Ian said so in a 1993 interview. So is this now the Ian Anderson board or the Jethro Tull board, because the way this sounds is that there can not be both. Sad to say I will take a break from all of this,I have met a lot a great folks here, I will still drop by from time to time. I understand your frustration Charlie. For some reason some feel the need to take sides and as well as shots. There is simply no reason to try diminish Martin Barre's role as a member of Jethro Tull. If someone likes Florian's style better than Martin that is fine. But that doesn't change the fact, as Ian stated, without Martin there is no Jethro Tull. We all know Ian is the driving force behind the band, but Martin is the one that made them a rock & roll band. The last big album for Jethro Tull was Crest Of A Knave. And the focus of that album was on Martin's guitar playing. Funny thing is, it even won them a Grammy.
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Post by TM on Jun 27, 2012 21:04:01 GMT -5
Ian has never been a "happy ending" type of guy.
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Post by jtul07 on Jun 27, 2012 21:28:51 GMT -5
The Jethro Tull Board I joined this Board almost 1 year ago and I have always enjoyed the great people here. This recent discussion about who or what is Jethro Tull, is not worth arguing over. I try to look at things as they are and not blame anyone for what it has become. With the emotional reactions to what should be a very happy time for Tull Fans, the overall direction has become silly and nonsensical.
I'm not mad at Ian or Martin for what has been a true musical family for many years. We can argue over every album without being angry, but this interview has divided many here. I suppose it was Goldmine Magazine's intention to be provocative and they accomplished that. Now that we are looking forward to this tour, someone has to rain all over it. They might even be owned by Metallica or MTV.
I will continue to post in a positive way about Tull no matter what anyone else thinks. If that upsets anyone then so be it. My thoughts are not unique to this forum. I won't care what is said by those who disagree. I'm old enough to speak for what I believe too.
When I first joined I told Jeff how special this place was to me and that includes everyone. If there are people that agree with that, then hang around and have fun.
Charlie, you are too valuable a member to leave now. This is a place for all Tull Fans.
If my avatar upsets anyone then too bad. I like Florian Opahle and that's why he is there. I like Martin Barre too but I have a current member of Tull as my choice.
We all need to relax and not worry over this issue. It is all about Rock and Roll. Not Politics.
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Post by TM on Jun 27, 2012 21:57:47 GMT -5
The Jethro Tull BoardI joined this Board almost 1 year ago and I have always enjoyed the great people here. This recent discussion about who or what is Jethro Tull, is not worth arguing over. I try to look at things as they are and not blame anyone for what it has become. With the emotional reactions to what should be a very happy time for Tull Fans, the overall direction has become silly and nonsensical.
I'm not mad at Ian or Martin for what has been a true musical family for many years. We can argue over every album without being angry, but this interview has divided many here. I suppose it was Goldmine Magazine's intention to be provocative and they accomplished that. Now that we are looking forward to this tour, someone has to rain all over it. They might even be owned by Metallica or MTV.
I will continue to post in a positive way about Tull no matter what anyone else thinks. If that upsets anyone then so be it. My thoughts are not unique to this forum. I won't care what is said by those who disagree. I'm old enough to speak for what I believe too.
When I first joined I told Jeff how special this place was to me and that includes everyone. If there are people that agree with that, then hang around and have fun.
Charlie, you are too valuable a member to leave now. This is a place for all Tull Fans.
If my avatar upsets anyone then too bad. I like Florian Opahle and that's why he is there. I like Martin Barre too but I have a current member of Tull as my choice.
We all need to relax and not worry over this issue. It is all about Rock and Roll. Not Politics. Jim, I love ya but you are obviously getting off trying to ruffle people's feathers by calling Ian's solo band Jethro Tull. Martin deserves better and Tull fans deserve better. It's fine to dig Florian (as we all do) and to have a little fun as well, but most don't feel the need to call Ian's solo band Jethro Tull. Even Ian has not gone that far - yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 5:10:54 GMT -5
Well, we certainly have the livliest chat board around!
Everyone has a right to their say, but for my tupennporth worth I'd say, some posts have been bordering on seriously flaming Martin.
In the spirit if free speech it's been allowed as that's one of the core principles behind setting this board up. I can't see that changing.
But if Martin had been a member here then I think he would be perfectly within his rights to have made a complaint on a couple of grounds.
Following a band like Tull has its similarities with a football team, some prefer X over Y in defence for no particularly reason, just personal preference. Same goes for Tull [or the IA band], whether it be Martin vs Florian, Andy vs John O'Hara, David vs Jonathan and as we all know that situation goes back to the year dot for Tull.
Some objective, constructive criticism is fair game, subjective views are fine, but when it's a constant regurgitation of teling Martin to put up or shut up, and it becomes so boring to the extent that good long-standing members are put off by it then I suppose some sort of line has to be drawn at sometime.
Martin has, I think, kept good counsel, I don't think his comments in Goldmine are particularly damaging to Ian, Tull or himself, it seems to me like he is a man who was steered towards giving a negative response but he gave it honestly without stacks of venom. Not something that has always been prevalent in Tull dismissals in the past it seems.
So, Martin lets off some steam, FFS so what, after 40+ years in one job and then 'released' maybe he has earned some right to sound off. Probably moreso than some of his constant hecklers.
If you like or prefer Florian, no problem, evolution of the Ian Anderson Band [whether it be Tull or not] continues, and we can all have and express an opinion, but lets drop the excessive slagging off of a player who has contributed greatly to a band we love.
Finally, I would just ask Nags one question.
If Martin is such a pain, how come you think the time is right to slag him off now?
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Nags
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Post by Nags on Jun 28, 2012 5:40:49 GMT -5
For the last time, I am not slagging Martin, he is a good guitar player. I just don't see his pouting as being genuine, and I feel he has taken the same advantage of Tull fans as Ian. I am slagging his dishonesty, something none of you have addressed. It seems OK to slag Ian, but as soon as someone points out Martin's bullshit about set lists, what happened with Tull, how he was part of all the other sackings of former members. Martin wasn't a prisoner, he could have struck out on his own anytime, but didn't.
It is that inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, just you all seem to have the same issue with things Ian does.
I think both Ian and Martin are ass holes, it's just that one is damn great musician and writer; the other an also ran guitarist - who instead of saying things that undermine his legacey, should shut up and play his guitar.
Over, out, good bye!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 6:21:37 GMT -5
For the last time, I am not slagging Martin, he is a good guitar player. It is that inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, just you all seem to have the same issue with things Ian does. I think both Ian and Martin are ass holes, it's just that one is damn great musician and writer; the other an also ran guitarist Hmmmm. Inconsistancy, seems to be consistant
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Nags
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Post by Nags on Jun 28, 2012 6:44:02 GMT -5
And your point is???
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 6:53:49 GMT -5
You are not exactly Mr Consistancy are you? You have made around 25 posts, many if not all contain unnecessary barracking of a guitar player in a band which you claim to be a fan of. Most of your arguments are supposition on your part and bear no truth, as you say about Martin, time to put up or shut up. You are very wrong in your assertion that people here slag Ian, I think Ian has had more than a fair bit of praise and support from this board as well as other arenas on the web. The constant downer has been, IMO, your posts. Don't try to drag me into a debate about it, that seems to be your MO, feel welcome to post, but try to drop the constant harrassment approach.
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Heavy Horse
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Post by Heavy Horse on Jun 28, 2012 7:43:04 GMT -5
It is a sign of how much emotional connection we feel to Tull that this discussion has got so heated!
I just want to say that Ian could have quite easily have released TAAB2 as a Jethro Tull album, thereby closing the door on Martin, but he didn't. To me, this means that this need not be a permanent parting of the ways. The only thing I think I know about Ian, is that he is a singularly driven individual that will go his own way at all costs. If that means changing musicians when it suits him, then that's just the way it is. Without that drive holding everything together, I doubt whether Tull would have gone on so long. Florian Opahle is an exceptional guitarist, who nevertheless did his utmost to play the sort of lines that Martin would have on TAAB2. This might be because Ian told him to, or it might just be that he knows what fits. Either way, it makes no odds to me, I'm afraid!
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Post by TM on Jun 28, 2012 9:26:10 GMT -5
It is a sign of how much emotional connection we feel to Tull that this discussion has got so heated! I just want to say that Ian could have quite easily have released TAAB2 as a Jethro Tull album, thereby closing the door on Martin, but he didn't. To me, this means that this need not be a permanent parting of the ways. The only thing I think I know about Ian, is that he is a singularly driven individual that will go his own way at all costs. If that means changing musicians when it suits him, then that's just the way it is. Without that drive holding everything together, I doubt whether Tull would have gone on so long. Florian Opahle is an exceptional guitarist, who nevertheless did his utmost to play the sort of lines that Martin would have on TAAB2. This might be because Ian told him to, or it might just be that he knows what fits. Either way, it makes no odds to me, I'm afraid! Great post. I think Ian wrestled over whether or not to call this album a Jethro Tull album and in the end he did the right thing. After all it is called: JETHRO TULL'S IAN ANDERSON TABB2 So he did get the name in there for sales purposes without officially closing the door on Martin and Doane. Ian has made it clear that he sees Tull touring again in the near future. It will be most interesting to see if Martin and Doane care to join him. As for Florian's playing on this record, I get the feeling as did you that he is playing in the style of Martin. But something is missing. Maybe it was Florian's interpretation of what the guitar should sound like, or maybe it was Ian's input - or maybe it was both. But at the end of the day it was close, but it just wasn't "there". Banker Bets is a perfect example of this. The guitar solo is nice, but it's just a solo. There's nothing that truly grabs you - no signature there. It could be anyone playing it. Martin's guitar solos give you chills. That's the difference.
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Post by My God on Jun 28, 2012 9:39:16 GMT -5
Quizz is not the one to mess with in this area, Nags.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 10:47:19 GMT -5
For the last time, I am not slagging Martin, It is inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, Martin is an also ran guitarist - who should shut up and play his guitar. Maybe you should play something. Darin
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Post by housebrick on Jun 28, 2012 11:17:33 GMT -5
It is that inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, just you all seem to have the same issue with things Ian does. ; the other an also ran guitarist - who instead of saying things that undermine his legacey, should shut up and play his guitar. Over, out, good bye! Come on Naggie lets hear your Guitar playing It must be far superior to an also ran average player like Martin eh!! PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!
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Post by housebrick on Jun 28, 2012 11:25:09 GMT -5
. Banker Bets is a perfect example of this. The guitar solo is nice, but it's just a solo. There's nothing that truly grabs you - no signature there. It could be anyone playing it. Martin's guitar solos give you chills. That's the difference. Agreed ,Something like this maybe www.electrocutas.net/cast/mm_bcast.htm
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