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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 12, 2009 22:54:37 GMT -5
Hey, you guys are jumping ahead! Every album must be given due process and measured against the criteria, even if it's just a formaility! And I've added a ninth criteria of Does the Album Have a Sense of Humor?
Okay, so with that said, this is Round Three: THIS WAS v. AQUALUNG. Three votes so far for Aqualung, but let's try to follow the format, shall we, because otherwise it won't be as fun, and will go too quickly. I see this lasting well into next year by the time we cover all 20 or so studio albums in this manner. ;D
1) Does the album break any new ground?
This Was has already been established as groundbreaking in prior rounds. I'm not so sure that Aqualung wins this category because the hard rock stuff that is on the album is really not earth-shattering, and incorporating the flute was by now three albums old. The acoustic songs, like Mother Goose and Up to Me, with their weird little vignettes, and oddball characters, were very Beatle-esque, so that had been done before too. I would give this one to This Was.
2) The complexity of the music: how adventurous is it?
Not everything on Aqualung is complex. Wind Up and Locomotive Breath, for example, are easy to play, but the same can be said for some of the material on This Was. Aqualung's music and certainly the lyrics and subject matter was quite adventurous, though, and the religious and social criticsim was considered shocking at the time, so I would definitely give this to Aqualung.
3) The quality of the lyrics in terms of imagery, rhyme, metaphor, content and meaning.
Aqualung wins this one by a landslide.
4) How essential the album is to the Tull catalogue? Does it contain any Tull classics?
This Was has its fair share of classics, but EVERYTHING on Aqualung is a Tull classic and it is arguably the single most essential album to the Tull catalogue. So Aqualung takes this one too.
5) How well-sung is the album?
Again, Aqualung by a decisive margin.
Other criteria to be considered, but afforded less weight, include:
6) Are there any unusual or interesting musical touches, like the claghorn on This Was for example.
Aqualung has that Gregorian chanting on My God, but really This Was has the more unusual elements including claghorn, harmonica and that kind of scat-singing through the flute. I would give this one to This Was.
7) The overall packaging and presentation of the album, including artwork, liner notes, etc.
Aqualung because of the famous cover painting and gothic typeface.
8) Production and sound quality of the album, but for this one should be consistent, as to audio equipment and CD quality, since it would be unfair to compare a remastered or gold CD to a regular disc, or to compare an album heard on a great stereo system compared to an old cassette tape played on a walkman.
Remastered Aqualung beats Remastered This Was.
[glow=red,2,300]9) Does the album have a sense of humor?[/glow]
Aqualung does, This Was does not.
So Aqualung takes 7 of 9 categories, and therefore gets my vote as well.
Round Three score: Aqualung: 4, This Was: 0 A-lung still needs one more vote to close this one out, though.
Jeff
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Post by Lordiffyboatrace on Dec 13, 2009 9:11:18 GMT -5
Well consider my vote to be the clincher then. Aqualung for me is perhaps the quintessential Tull album. For me it is their best performed and written album (up to that point anyway) I really love the variety of musical styles on the album, although my favourite tracks on it are the more acoustical ones such as mother goose, cheap day return wondring aloud etc. I also really like the lyrics which by now were becoming like fully formed little stories, be it from Ians real life (wondring aloud, cheap day return) to medieval type imagery (mother goose)
the album cover and the font used for the text suited the music perfectly as well.
in summing up, i have very fond memories of listening to aqualung, when i wasnt familiar with the album or tull in general, with the headphones on and just allowing the music to conjure up images in my head relating to the songs i was hearing. fantastic!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 21:21:36 GMT -5
Well consider my vote to be the clincher then. Aqualung for me is perhaps the quintessential Tull album. For me it is their best performed and written album (up to that point anyway) I really love the variety of musical styles on the album, although my favourite tracks on it are the more acoustical ones such as mother goose, cheap day return wondring aloud etc. I also really like the lyrics which by now were becoming like fully formed little stories, be it from Ians real life (wondring aloud, cheap day return) to medieval type imagery (mother goose) the album cover and the font used for the text suited the music perfectly as well. in summing up, i have very fond memories of listening to aqualung, when i wasnt familiar with the album or tull in general, with the headphones on and just allowing the music to conjure up images in my head relating to the songs i was hearing. fantastic!! The acoustic pieces in Aqualung are certainly something special--I agree with you completely there. I also find them very similar to some of the acoustic pieces on Living in the Past such as "Just Trying to Be", "Up the 'Pool", and "Nursie" but I suppose those were recorded around the same time anyway. Also I think this counts as the fifth vote for Aqualung
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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 13, 2009 22:31:13 GMT -5
Okay, so with Dave's vote we have five votes for Aqualung and with KB we are over the top with six, so it's official, Aqualung wins! This Was falls to 0-3 in the standings.
Next up on Album Wars: Round Four: THIS WAS v. LIVING IN THE PAST.
Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2009 1:13:58 GMT -5
1) Does the album break any new ground? Living in the past consisted of some really amazing and great songs, but the sound was similar to albums released before it, so I would say it broke little new ground. This Was, on the other hand, was the original ground breaker.
This one goes to This Was.
2) The complexity of the music: how adventurous is it?
Most of This Was can be played by any slightly experienced guitar player (albeit there is something to be said about the talents of Mick Abrahams). Living in the past had some very adventurous songs such as "For Later", "Just Trying To Be", and ofcourse the duo of live performance tracks.
This one goes to Living in the Past.
3) The quality of the lyrics in terms of imagery, rhyme, metaphor, content and meaning.
While This Was did somewhat offer a few lyrical intellect in places, Living in the Past is the obvious victor.
4) How essential the album is to the Tull catalogue? Does it contain any Tull classics?
I'd have to say that This Was was more essential than Living in the Past in the Tull catalogue. I'm not sure if it contains more classics, but being the very first album, it's certainly more essential I would say.
This one goes to This Was.
5) How well-sung is the album?
I think some of Ian's best vocal work was done on Living in the Past. Though This Was has some pretty unique and satisfying vocals. For me, it's a close one but
Living in the Past gets this one.
Other criteria to be considered, but afforded less weight, include:
6) Are there any unusual or interesting musical touches, like the claghorn on This Was for example.
This was did have the harmonica, flute, and claghorn. Living in the past had the presence of some sort of xylophone (sp?) percussion instrument in "Just Trying to Be", and it did add the presence of acoustic guitar and keyboards. Also the bells at the beginning of the Christmas Song. Technically I believe this vote would go to Living in the Past.
7) The overall packaging and presentation of the album, including artwork, liner notes, etc.
This Was wins this one I think--the cover is more interesting, and though I only have the shortened CD version of Living in the Past, This Was definitely has superior liner notes.
8) Production and sound quality of the album, but for this one should be consistent, as to audio equipment and CD quality, since it would be unfair to compare a remastered or gold CD to a regular disc, or to compare an album heard on a great stereo system compared to an old cassette tape played on a walkman.
I am not sure about the differences of sound of these two. . . both are quite good as far as I can hear. Because I'm quite uneducated (and blissfully unaffected) with sound quality, this one's a tie.
9) Does the album have a sense of humor?
Living in the Past has more humor in it than This Was.
All in all, Living in the Past seems to have won this one for me--It gets my vote!
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Post by tootull on Dec 14, 2009 12:53:51 GMT -5
Round Four: THIS WAS v. LIVING IN THE PAST. Foul ball! Just the craziest...This Was with bonus tracks gets the vote here. Hey, studio albums should not compete with a comp. Cheering for Minstrel in the Gallery!
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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 14, 2009 13:58:20 GMT -5
Round Four: THIS WAS v. LIVING IN THE PAST. Foul ball! Just the craziest...This Was with bonus tracks gets the vote here. Hey, studio albums should not compete with a comp. Cheering for Minstrel in the Gallery! I know what you're saying, but I decided to include LITP because so much of that album is studio material that was new at the time. It was a double album, about half of which was new stuff. So our comparison can only take into account the new studio material on LITP....not the live stuff and two or three greatest hits. Okay, then, you have cast the first vote for This Was. Round 4 score so far: This Was - 1, LITP - 0 Jeff
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Post by TM on Dec 14, 2009 15:50:23 GMT -5
I'd have to give to LITP based on the packaging alone.
LITP 1 TW 1
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Post by Lordiffyboatrace on Dec 14, 2009 16:08:33 GMT -5
Living in the past is my other favourite album. What a diverse range of material. When i first heard it I had no idea it was a compilation album really. And in effect its not like a greatest hits, its tracks that hadnt appeared on albums before (well more or less). I love the packaging too. Obviously the cd version loses out in that field. The vinyl edition is awesome with a kinda waxy feeling sleeve and loads of pictures in the gatefold sleeve, and if i remember rightly some great info about who plays what on each track. I had the UK version which had teacher, i reckon the US version had alive and well and living in on it (correct me if im wrong). Some of my favourite Tull tracks are here. Wondring again, driving song, life is a long song, up the pool, nursie. Definitely LITP for me, in all categories.
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Post by Lordiffyboatrace on Dec 14, 2009 16:09:34 GMT -5
also i think u guys are missing one vote for litp on page 2 from kaibailey
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Post by TM on Dec 14, 2009 16:52:56 GMT -5
Living in the past is my other favourite album. What a diverse range of material. When i first heard it I had no idea it was a compilation album really. And in effect its not like a greatest hits, its tracks that hadnt appeared on albums before (well more or less). I love the packaging too. Obviously the cd version loses out in that field. The vinyl edition is awesome with a kinda waxy feeling sleeve and loads of pictures in the gatefold sleeve, and if i remember rightly some great info about who plays what on each track. I had the UK version which had teacher, i reckon the US version had alive and well and living in on it (correct me if im wrong). Some of my favourite Tull tracks are here. Wondring again, driving song, life is a long song, up the pool, nursie. Definitely LITP for me, in all categories. Agreed LIBR, LITP as many memorable tracks. The US copy came out with Teacher as well. A different version that appeared on Benefit though. Come to think of it, I guess the UK version of Benefit didn't have Teacher on it did it?
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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 14, 2009 17:15:08 GMT -5
also i think u guys are missing one vote for litp on page 2 from kaibailey You are absolutely right, Dave, so the revised tally counting JohnN's (i.e., Tootull) vote for This Was, and your vote, TM's vote and KB's vote for LITP is: LITP - 3, This Was - 1. I will vote on this tomorrow, using the nine-pronged approach. ;D Jeff
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Post by Lordiffyboatrace on Dec 14, 2009 18:25:54 GMT -5
Agreed LIBR, LITP as many memorable tracks. The US copy came out with Teacher as well. A different version that appeared on Benefit though. Come to think of it, I guess the UK version of Benefit didn't have Teacher on it did it? ye the UK version had "Alive and Well and Living In" on it instead of teacher
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 22:16:40 GMT -5
Living in the past is my other favourite album. What a diverse range of material. When i first heard it I had no idea it was a compilation album really. And in effect its not like a greatest hits, its tracks that hadnt appeared on albums before (well more or less). I love the packaging too. Obviously the cd version loses out in that field. The vinyl edition is awesome with a kinda waxy feeling sleeve and loads of pictures in the gatefold sleeve, and if i remember rightly some great info about who plays what on each track. Living in the Past certainly had some of Tull's best work in my opinion. The music was open, moody, fluid, and young. Very exciting Jethro Tull music.
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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 15, 2009 22:33:08 GMT -5
Living in the past is my other favourite album. What a diverse range of material. When i first heard it I had no idea it was a compilation album really. And in effect its not like a greatest hits, its tracks that hadnt appeared on albums before (well more or less). I love the packaging too. Obviously the cd version loses out in that field. The vinyl edition is awesome with a kinda waxy feeling sleeve and loads of pictures in the gatefold sleeve, and if i remember rightly some great info about who plays what on each track. Living in the Past certainly had some of Tull's best work in my opinion. The music was open, moody, fluid, and young. Very exciting Jethro Tull music. Right. That album has many of Ian's finest acoustic gems, like Life's a Long Song, Witch's Promise, Up the Pool, Wondring Again, Nursie, etc.....the list of beautiful acoustic pieces there goes on and on. "Magical" was the word Clive used to describe them. Jeff
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Post by tootull on Dec 17, 2009 20:05:35 GMT -5
Ummm did I miss something? You are aware that Thick As A Brick was released before LITP.
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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 17, 2009 21:54:06 GMT -5
I don't know why, but in my mind's eye I've always had it LITP first, then Brick so thanks for correcting me, I will reverse the order starting with Stand Up's album "wars.". Were both albums released the same year, 1972, or was LITP 1973?
Jeff
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Post by tootull on Dec 18, 2009 9:22:28 GMT -5
April 1972 Thick As A Brick July 1972 Living In The Past
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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 18, 2009 11:07:00 GMT -5
April 1972 Thick As A Brick July 1972 Living In The Past Thanks, JohnN. I knew it was a close thing, but in my mind I always thought LITP was first, I guess because of all the Glenn Cornick/Clive Bunker stuff on that album. Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 14:18:43 GMT -5
the first record released on Chrysallis record is Living In THe Past
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2009 3:16:17 GMT -5
It looks like we're waiting on a final vote for Living in the Past, or an additional vote for This Was, but it seems to me--with time in mind--we should perhaps move on to the next album if we are going to get through all of them
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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 30, 2009 11:17:30 GMT -5
It looks like we're waiting on a final vote for Living in the Past, or an additional vote for This Was, but it seems to me--with time in mind--we should perhaps move on to the next album if we are going to get through all of them Yes, thank you KB, I was intending to come back to this, and we will eventually get through the entire catalogue, but it will take awhile! To recap: This Was's record is 0-3, having lost to Stand Up, Benefit and Aqualung. I have reviewed the fourth round and so far LITP has 3 votes (KB, TM and LIBR) and This Was has 1 vote (Tootull). So LITP still needs 2 votes if it's going to win this round. Okay, so let the Fatman "weigh in" on the voting: 1) Does the album break any new ground? I think in some ways This Was is Tull's most groundbreaking album, because it blended jazz, blues and rock and introduced the flute as a lead instrument. But LITP in my opinion breaks ground too, in that it contains so many unique, quirky and really beautiful acoustic gems. But, still, I would have to give this one to This Was. 2) The complexity of the music: how adventurous is it? Both albums are adventurous, This Was for it's originality and LITP because it was a blend of fine acoustic studio recordings, a stunning and very adventurous live performance and a few greatest hits. I would say this category is a tie. 3) The quality of the lyrics in terms of imagery, rhyme, metaphor, content and meaning. LITP shows Ian continuing to develop and mature as a songwriter, whereas the lyrics on This Was hit on simple and rather typical blues themes. LITP by a wide margin. 4) How essential the album is to the Tull catalogue? Does it contain any Tull classics? This Was has a lot of Tull classics if you consider My Sunday Feeling, Beggar's Farm, Song For Jeffrey, Dharma for One, Serenade to a Cuckoo and Someday the Sun One Shine (which is one I detest), many of which are still played live. But then on LITP you have the title track, Life's A Long Song, Witch's Promise, Love Story, Christmas Song, Up the Pool and Nursie, so that's quite a few, but I would have to say that this category is a tie. 5) How well-sung is the album? LITP has the better singing, as so much of This Was is instrumental, and Ian was still "finding his voice" at that time. Other criteria to be considered, but afforded less weight, include: 6) Are there any unusual or interesting musical touches, like the claghorn on This Was for example. I think that with the harmonica, Roland Kirk-style flute playing and the claghorn, I would give this to This Was. 7) The overall packaging and presentation of the album, including artwork, liner notes, etc. I would say this is a tie. The original LITP LP had that nice booklet, but TW has the better front and back cover art. 8) Production and sound quality of the album, but for this one should be consistent, as to audio equipment and CD quality, since it would be unfair to compare a remastered or gold CD to a regular disc, or to compare an album heard on a great stereo system compared to an old cassette tape played on a walkman. I think LITP wins this category, because in terms of the original recording I think it had the better sound quality. 9) Does the album have a sense of humor? Although neither album is noted for its humor, LITP does have some tongue in cheek humor on songs like, Up the Pool, Dr. Bogenbroom and Christmas Song, so I would give LITP the edge here. Okay, so this was a surprisingly close vote, with LITP taking four categories, TW two and three others being ties. So based on the nine point standard, I cast my vote for LITP. Round Four score: LITP-4, This Was-1.LITP needs one more to win Round 4 of the This Was wars. Jeff
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Post by tootull on Dec 30, 2009 11:57:34 GMT -5
LITP needs one more to win Round 4 of the This Was wars. Jeff With the right to change my mind; I'm tossing "This Was' to the new year's fires to get on with it, or really I must play fair, yeah! My vote for "This Was' was a mini protest. [REPEAT=best of Jethro Tull] LITP should not be included in this ummm contest.[/REPEAT] LITP is an all star album against the regular ummm teams. LITP should win every match. (should) ;D LITP gets the all star default nod. Besides, the presentation of the photo album style record cover is top notch. ummm Happy New Year 2010 Wounded, old and treacherous...
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Post by Nonfatman on Dec 30, 2009 15:37:49 GMT -5
LITP needs one more to win Round 4 of the This Was wars. Jeff With the right to change my mind; I'm tossing "This Was' to the new year's fires to get on with it, or really I must play fair, yeah! My vote for "This Was' was a mini protest. [REPEAT=best of Jethro Tull] LITP should not be included in this ummm contest.[/REPEAT] LITP is an all star album against the regular ummm teams. LITP should win every match. (should) ;D LITP gets the all star default nod. Besides, the presentation of the photo album style record cover is top notch. ummm Happy New Year 2010 Wounded, old and treacherous... Okay, so now John has changed his vote in favor of LITP -- which he previously registered for This Was in protest of LITP being included in the Album Wars. I understand John's point, but I felt that since about 60% of LITP was in fact new or unreleased studio material at the time, it should be included, because there was at least an album's worth of studio material there, separate and aside from the live set and the two or three greatest hits. But rest assured that strictly live or greatest hits albums like Bursting Out, M.U. or Little Light Music shall not be included in these wars, only the studio albums, and that does not include the Christmas album or any of Ian's solo albums. Anyway, Tootull's reversal means that LITP has now acquired the necessary !!! LITP wins Round Four of the This Was album wars by a score of 5-0. This Was's record now falls to 0-4. NEXT UP: Round 5 of This Was's wars: This Was v. Thick as a Brick(But we probably won't get started with that one until after New Years) Jeff
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Post by Nonfatman on Jan 4, 2010 17:19:08 GMT -5
Okay, so here goes with Round 5 of This Was's album wars: THIS WAS v. THICK AS A BRICK
1) Does the album break any new ground?
This Was does for reasons already mentioned, but so does Brick because it was the first concept album that satirized the very notion of concept albums. Tie.
2) The complexity of the music: how adventurous is it?
Brick with its theme and variations, complicated musical bridges and constantly shifting melodies is as adventurous as you can get, but so was This Was at the time. Neverthess, I would have to give this category to Brick.
3) The quality of the lyrics in terms of imagery, rhyme, metaphor, content and meaning.
Brick, with its social and political satire wins this by a landslide.
4) How essential the album is to the Tull catalogue? Does it contain any Tull classics?
Both are essential and both are classic. Tie.
5) How well-sung is the album?
Brick is extremely well-sung while on This Was, Ian is still experimenting with his vocal style.
Other criteria to be considered, but afforded less weight, include:
6) Are there any unusual or interesting musical touches, like the claghorn on This Was for example.
Brick, has a lot of musical eccentricities, This Was has that claghorn, but Brick wins this one too.
7) The overall packaging and presentation of the album, including artwork, liner notes, etc.
Brick wins this category handily, with the St. Cleve Chronicle.
8) Production and sound quality of the album, but for this one should be consistent, as to audio equipment and CD quality, since it would be unfair to compare a remastered or gold CD to a regular disc, or to compare an album heard on a great stereo system compared to an old cassette tape played on a walkman.
In comparing the original This Was v. the original Thick as a Brick, the sound quality on Brick was better.
9) Does the album have a sense of humor?
Much of Brick is tongue-in-cheek humor, whereas there is no real sense of humor on This Was, so Brick wins this too.
To sum up, I gave Brick the edge in 7 of the 9 categories with the other two being ties, and therefore I vote for Brick.
Round Five score so far: Brick - 1 vote, This Was - 0 votes
Jeff
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