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Post by tullfan on Mar 1, 2011 16:10:51 GMT -5
Hello everyone. Ive listened to this album many times and have been trying to figure out the whole meaning of it. Basically I can get that it's about heaven and hell. That's the only thing I can figure out. what do you all think?
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Post by TM on Mar 1, 2011 20:26:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 13:12:21 GMT -5
Well there are whole papers, even websites, that talk about the different interpretations of the Passion Play album. It is definitely some kind of social critique, and once again has to at least some extent the same critique on the church that you find on aqualung here and there. As well as numerous references to human nature.
I think perhaps it was not written to have a full and rounded interpretation to be created by the listener, but instead a fertile ground in which to plant the seed of your mind in the different meanings, connections, and associations that you find within the song and within yourself. There are thousands of little corners in the song in which people will find meaning--in their own way--and it's a matter of finding and playing with apophenions in the different things that you hear. That's at least the funnest way to listen to it, in my opinion.
The whole albums seems too tongue in cheeck, metaphorical, and overall just too fucked to actually communicate a single understanding clearly.
It is the ever so ambitious progressive rock experiment at its best.
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Post by My God on Mar 2, 2011 13:53:06 GMT -5
Whatever the interpretation, it's a great disc.  We've got you taped, you're in the play. |
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Post by tullfan on Mar 3, 2011 0:17:51 GMT -5
I think it's a great disk too. you can actually have an imagination with it. I am totally blind so I usually make up my on imaginative stories to music. The fight from lucifur andoversee overture are pictured to me as angels telling their stories.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 10:08:32 GMT -5
It seemed that Tull were really pushing their limits with a commercial audience with this release. I remember them saying that after they released Aqualung, they only thought they'd have a year or two of success left, so they may as well have some fun with it--so they released Thick as a Brick, which was of course a huge success.
I suppose after that they may have felt unstoppable. Passion Play is even more ambitious, and perhaps therefor a more challenging listen.
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Post by Geoff CB on Mar 6, 2011 3:02:36 GMT -5
Now that I've read those War Child notes, I think APP is a musical interpretation of what Ian was proposing for the Movie. It's full of dichotomous relationships - Heaven and Hell, good and bad, with a touch of indifference for measure...and it still manages some toilet humour! ("Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs - meaning an outside lavatory)
Basically from memory:
Young man dies -
Friends miss death but make funeral -
Comforted by angelic person but dragged off to review his life - Sees all the skeletons in the cupboard of life -
The reviewers of his life reveal that they are like critics: they don't care how terrible his life has been - it's entertainment for them! - Just like a play there is an interval with a story telling us that we should listen to our own conscience in matters of belief -
Heaven is not what was expected - so he goes off to Hell-
But that doesn't work out either - The devil doesn't really care about anything either. ("colours I've none")-
So the young man really thinks about the mistakes in his life and returns to be reborn (as an analogy to the Resurrection.)
Strange...as I typed this, my three framed degrees/diploma fell off the wall!
Maybe I brought the gods' own fire in the conflict revel!
Geoff
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Post by bongofury on Mar 16, 2011 11:55:03 GMT -5
It's about 46 minutes. ;D
Sorry, just feeling a bit snarky today.
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Post by TM on Mar 16, 2011 13:00:55 GMT -5
Now that I've read those War Child notes, I think APP is a musical interpretation of what Ian was proposing for the Movie. It's full of dichotomous relationships - Heaven and Hell, good and bad, with a touch of indifference for measure...and it still manages some toilet humour! ("Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs - meaning an outside lavatory) Basically from memory: Young man dies - Friends miss death but make funeral - Comforted by angelic person but dragged off to review his life - Sees all the skeletons in the cupboard of life - The reviewers of his life reveal that they are like critics: they don't care how terrible his life has been - it's entertainment for them! - Just like a play there is an interval with a story telling us that we should listen to our own conscience in matters of belief - Heaven is not what was expected - so he goes off to Hell- But that doesn't work out either - The devil doesn't really care about anything either. ("colours I've none")- So the young man really thinks about the mistakes in his life and returns to be reborn (as an analogy to the Resurrection.) Strange...as I typed this, my three framed degrees/diploma fell off the wall! Maybe I brought the gods' own fire in the conflict revel! Geoff Man, I wish I had read this back in 1976!!! (when I first heard the album) ;D |
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Post by tullfan on Mar 16, 2011 14:38:52 GMT -5
I tried to read the musical but all my screen reader could make out were immages. that's a cool play or movie it sounds like though. would make an interesting story line.
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jrpipik
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 10, 2011 17:02:33 GMT -5
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Post by Morthoron on Apr 10, 2011 20:25:38 GMT -5
The MoI site is pretty spot on with its research. All one really needs to know about A Passion Play is that the hereafter is run by bureaucrats, so even in death you will not escape governmental red tape. ;D |
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jrpipik
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 11, 2011 5:52:59 GMT -5
The MoI site is pretty spot on with its research. There are a couple places where the author makes or misses points sort of arbitrarily. For example he dismisses any influence by Dante because Ian Anderson says he never read the Inferno. But many of the images from Dante have seeped pretty deep into the cultural consciousness and it's easy to believe that Anderson was at least aware of them. And the idea that Lucifer is icy seems to be straight from Dante, since most other images of the devil are more associated with fire than ice. He also wants to make literal sense of every line in the work, when much of Anderson's lyric is rather impressionistic and deliberately ambiguous to give the listener more freedom of interpretation. I think he belongs to the school that says it's okay to include a line that feels right even if you can't pin down it's exact meaning. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 8:45:27 GMT -5
I noticed something similar to that with Thick as a Brick and The Wasteland. I know that Ian read the wasteland, and that he took some lines from it for Baker St Muse, but I see a lot of the theme in Thick as a Brick. In that one BBC lively arts documentary David Palmer is talking about how Ian says he's not influenced by any poetry but that he's actually reading all the time  I haven't read Dante, I should, maybe we can find more connections ! |
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jrpipik
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 13, 2011 10:20:39 GMT -5
I haven't read Dante, I should, maybe we can find more connections ! Neither have I, to my shame. I tried in my youth but couldn't cut it. Maybe I should try again. But not having read it I still recognize elements and themes. For instance Jack DeJour and Evelyn from the War Child movie treatment (which is part of the CD-APP-WC-movie constellation) are obviously connected to Virgil and Dante. I assume Ian Anderson is at least as well-educated or maybe a better term would be as well-enculturated as I am and is doing this stuff intentionally. So even though Anderson supposedly hasn't read Dante, I wouldn't count him out as an influence like MOI does. In fact I'd go so far as to say anyone in western society with even an inkling of social awareness doing an imaginary exploration of the afterlife would have to consider Dante at some point. |
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Post by TM on Apr 13, 2011 13:46:29 GMT -5
The MoI site is pretty spot on with its research. All one really needs to know about A Passion Play is that the hereafter is run by bureaucrats, so even in death you will not escape governmental red tape. ;D LOL. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 15:31:44 GMT -5
One of the things that I like about A Passion Play is that it is so overdramatic. The imagery is odd, the sounds are challenging to say the least, and the concepts are ridiculous.
Some people pass it off to be a horrible album. But even if it does sound horrible, it's obvious that it has great depth and creaitvity.
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jrpipik
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 13, 2011 20:44:41 GMT -5
APP took me at least four or five full listens (I played it in the car for weeks everywhere I went, trying to figure it out) before I could really even hear the album clearly. It's a very challenging piece where the listener has to bring almost as much effort to it as the performers (well, probably not that much). It lacks the repeating motifs and obvious song structures and recognizable choruses of TAAB, requiring a familiarity with the whole before being able to understand how the individual parts work (for me at least). But at that point it becomes rather brilliant, a completely immersive piece.
OTOH I've never felt that the sax, as well played as it is, quite "cuts through" the band sound the way the flute does. At least on the album -- the sax sounds pretty good on live cuts. I think APP as a record would have been that much stronger and perhaps more approachable with less sax and more flute.
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Post by danielleduclos on Apr 13, 2011 22:18:58 GMT -5
I noticed something similar to that with Thick as a Brick and The Wasteland. I know that Ian read the wasteland, and that he took some lines from it for Baker St Muse, but I see a lot of the theme in Thick as a Brick. I'm glad you agree with me there's a connection, Kai  You'll probably 'notice it' even more once you've actually read the Wasteland! You can borrow my copy |
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jrpipik
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Post by jrpipik on Apr 23, 2011 20:17:57 GMT -5
All one really needs to know about A Passion Play is that the hereafter is run by bureaucrats, so even in death you will not escape governmental red tape. ;D In his new song "The Afterlife" Paul Simon goes to heaven but finds that before you get to see God, "You got to fill a form first, then you wait in a line." |
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 10, 2011 10:56:19 GMT -5
"A Passion Play" is a darker version of "Thick as a Brick". When Ian wanted to create a concept album, he just used biblical imagery and a little "Alice in Wonderland". I always felt it was pure fun at the time and never took it too seriously. They were using parts of it during the 1972 tour and it grew to a full album. It remains one of the best albums ever produced by Tull. I really fell in love with the dead ballerina.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2011 1:55:33 GMT -5
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 13, 2011 19:14:13 GMT -5
Extreme, intense, progressive, bizarre, and a whole lot of fun. Excellent video compilation with extras. Thanks for the good work. Tell Ian to give up the intro film before the 40th anniversary of Passion Play. I'm sure he has it hidden in a very secure place.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 23:52:13 GMT -5
It's also worth noting that from the sounds of the Chateau Disaster tapes (or whatever they're called) from the nightcap album it seems that a lot of the musical ideas that they were already toying around with found there way into a more structural sequence which tends to go everywhere and change moods sporadically.
In the spectrum of popular classic rock albums Jethro Tull has some presence with some of their classic albums. A Passion Play is probably most overlooked because it challenges the listener to actually listen and be stimulated. It wasn't the background music to your birthday party or your date. In a way this album sort of exploits surprising the listener. I don't even know what they were expecting as a reaction. It seems to be that the whole album is quite absurd, but absurdity sort of tends to stretch things more towards a truth. I think that's why Monty Python got so big.
I think the album has a similar vibe to War Child in a way. Both seem to have these charades and masks where they are presented very grim and serious situations in a theatrical and dramatic way. Although sometimes the theme isn't so grim.
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You'll probably 'notice it' even more once you've actually read the Wasteland! You can borrow my copy 
