99
Claghornist
Posts: 16
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Post by 99 on Aug 29, 2012 7:07:40 GMT -5
As I read this thread, I am reminded that if one steps back a little, you can see a forest behind that tree.
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Post by jtul07 on Aug 29, 2012 8:37:49 GMT -5
As I read this thread, I am reminded that if one steps back a little,
you can see a forest behind that tree. Well said 99.  A lot of the ambiguity in Ian's lyrics creates many theories. Depending on your own perspective, the glass can be half empty or half full. Just like a painting which evokes emotions of all types to every individual. The emotions I feel from this album are very positive. No regrets.  Just wait and sees.  |
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Post by Nonfatman on Aug 29, 2012 9:51:53 GMT -5
Just to revisit the question and answer that we posed to Ian in our recent 'Tour Interview": --- TJTB: You’ve touched on how you fitted in A Change of Horses conceptually with the rest of the album. The song is very optimistic, as if a "fresh start" were actually possible for the various Geralds; but the way I interpret Kismet in Suburbia, the "fresh start" lyric is being employed in the ironic sense. Ian: No - just the realistic outcome of life and the awareness that this karma-like fate is not so bad after all. TJTB: It seems like, for each of these characters, it is only a fresh start into pain, loneliness, humiliation, boredom and, ultimately, oblivion. Ian: So cynical of you! TJTB: Well, this seems further reinforced by the 'Suppose bold woman' stanza, which seems so depressing and regretful to me. Ian: This is the fantasy longing of the "ordinary man, Gerald" but is hopeful, against the odds. I hope he gets lucky and doesn't have to pay for dinner.... --- Ian's answers, however, do not seem to square with the lyrics, at least that's how I see it. Just the word "kismet" itself, defined as "fate" illustrates my point because the word "fate" almost always has negative connotations. For example, take a look at these examples of how the word is normally used (from the Dictionary.com website): fate /feɪt/ Show Spelled [feyt] Show IPA noun, verb, fat·ed, fat·ing. noun 1. something that unavoidably befalls a person; fortune; lot: It is always his fate to be left behind. 2. the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time: Fate decreed that they would never meet again. 3. that which is inevitably predetermined; destiny: Death is our ineluctable fate. 4. a prophetic declaration of what must be: The oracle pronounced their fate. 5. death, destruction, or ruin. Also, the word "suburbia" taken in context with these gloomy lyrics, implies boredom and ennui, rather than any kind of renewed purpose or "fresh start." So, basically, I guess what I am saying is that Ian's interpretation of his own lyrics is incorrect.   Jeff |
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Post by jtul07 on Aug 29, 2012 10:26:57 GMT -5
Ian: So cynical of you!
So, basically, I guess what I am saying is that Ian's interpretation of his own lyrics is incorrect.
8-)Jeff Jeff,... Jeff,... Jeff. One does not tell the author what his lyrics mean, nor the story that was told. |
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Post by Nonfatman on Aug 29, 2012 11:12:16 GMT -5
Ian: So cynical of you!
So, basically, I guess what I am saying is that Ian's interpretation of his own lyrics is incorrect.
8-)Jeff Jeff,... Jeff,... Jeff. One does not tell the author what his lyrics mean, nor the story that was told. Jim, My comment was made half-jokingly, but the substance of what I am saying is hard to refute, and you have not addressed my point. The gloomy fate of each of the various Geralds, as reflected by the lyrics, simply does not mesh with what Ian said in these responses. Newsflash: Ian does not always give straight answers in interviews! Jeff |
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Post by jtul07 on Aug 29, 2012 11:44:12 GMT -5
Jim,
My comment was made half-jokingly, but the substance of what I am saying is hard to refute,
and you have not addressed my point.
The gloomy fate of each of the various Geralds, as reflected by the lyrics,
simply does not mesh with what Ian said in these responses.
Newsflash: Ian does not always give straight answers in interviews!
Jeff Here is the point I see: This album reflects survival in a modern world. All of these Geralds can live their lives with imperfect results. When life knocks you down, you can still appreciate what you still have...LIFE. The struggles that are in the lyrics can be overcome with a positive attitude. Fresh start, another day, another life, a quiet cafe. Starbuck euphoria.
Fresh start, another day, another life so far away from hell-raised aria.
Fresh start, another day, another life so far away from white heat Arabia.
Fresh start, another day, another life not so far away in slow-burn suburbia.
Fresh start, another day, my cared-for partner just slipped away from sweet utopia.I think you need to read between the lines and not just the lines. When the music plays with these lyrics, I feel even better. ;D |
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Post by Bassackwards on Aug 29, 2012 11:53:33 GMT -5
Hey Jeff, good points all but I think some still miss the mark. You wrote
"Gerald the Military Man, once a proud and valiant warrior, is alive, but "bowed",
You've reversed the words and I believe missed the meaning by doing so. "Bowed but alive" to me implies a new understanding/realization on which he bases his new purpose," helping his brothers". There is not even a hint in the way the song is sung that this is not the case IMHO.
Jeff wrote:
"Gerald the Banker has lost all of his money, is being charged with tax fraud, despite working so hard his whole life and now having nothing to show for it. He used to live life in the fast lane, snorting coke, buying front row tickets to the hottest events, and fucking beautiful women. He had money, power and a purpose in life."
Yes, all that's true but the point of TAAB2 is that that was the past. Then there is realization/redemption due to those past events a "change of horses", and going forward with new realization Gerald the Banker experiences a "Fresh start, another day, another life, a quiet cafe. Starbuck euphoria.
COUNT MY BLESSINGS, crossword ready..."
In other words a new found appreciation, as many of us have as we near 50, for the simpler things in life, ESPECIALLY after a drama filled youth. Once again, there is no hint in the words or the way the song is sung that Ian means anything other than that.
Jeff wrote that G. the chorister is:
"exposed as a fraud and is resigned to "lay himself down" to live in loneliness, acquiescence and submission"
Ian's words are:
"another life so far away from hell-raised aria."
this seems a good thing. Also,
"Now I lay me down to live in acquiescence, mine to give to all who listen."
This implies, I believe, a realization the path he was on led only to pain. He lays down in acquiescence, present tense active, a decision made based on his experience, no one forces him to lay down. A new found purpose is to give the lessons of his life to "all who listen"
"Deaf to dark un-heavenly host"
His realization that he was inhabited by a dark force, now he does not succumb, he is deaf to it. Seems a good thing to me.
I agree with much of what you say about G. the Most ordinary man. But even this incarnation has not fallen much, if any. Even BEORE he had to leave the shop his days were filled with the
"Same old words, another day while, all the time, life slips away.
But slips so slowly, stretches moments into hours and hours to years.
With characters by Harold Pinter, dark silences..."
So, he ends up where he started, having not taken a chance in life. Madge was always barren and still is. His model trains were at home though he left the Mallard behind at the shop. We always have to leave something behind when change occurs.(new realization about the song for me!)
What the hell, I'm not doing any work, and this is fun, might as well get into G. the Homeless.
"Fresh start, another day, my cared-for partner just slipped away from sweet utopia.
Bequeathed comforts, ceramic hob, electric blanket, your uncle’s Bob: a pretty picture.
Treasured moments, past and present..."
Yes, Gerald's partner dies, another big change to out man. Of course that's sad. But what is Gerald left with.
He had no home when he started. His family had abandoned him. But with his partner he lived in "sweet utopia". He had a new home and a new family and love for all those years and was "bequeathed comforts" including "treasured moments, past AND present"!
So, on the surface, life sucks, shit happens. But as we age, if we are lucky (and most of the Geralds are) we realize the joy of life is in the simple pleasures, the things money, power and wealth can't buy. That's the lesson here my friends IMHO.
I think Ian is wiser here than is all previous works. This is a mature work. I can't find a line in it that dosen't add to the whole. May I be so bold as to suggest in the early 70's Ian was a bit of a "wise guy". A little too clever. Now he seem to express true wisdom, simply, with little flash. And I think this has been coming out more in his solo works. They are not so GRAND, but of course, that attracted us geezers in our youth.
Morthoron finds Ian's conclusions "decididly bitter". For the reasons above, I disagree. I hope I'm not being a Polyanna about this, but Ian's conclusions about the inevitable twists and turns of life seem largely positive though realistic. I think they reflect his life in many ways, he has lost much power and influence in his chosen industry. He once was "second to none" but now seems to be very happy to just do what he wants, not striving for the top.
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Post by TM on Aug 29, 2012 12:00:59 GMT -5
Just to revisit the question and answer that we posed to Ian in our recent 'Tour Interview": --- TJTB: You’ve touched on how you fitted in A Change of Horses conceptually with the rest of the album. The song is very optimistic, as if a "fresh start" were actually possible for the various Geralds; but the way I interpret Kismet in Suburbia, the "fresh start" lyric is being employed in the ironic sense. Ian: No - just the realistic outcome of life and the awareness that this karma-like fate is not so bad after all. TJTB: It seems like, for each of these characters, it is only a fresh start into pain, loneliness, humiliation, boredom and, ultimately, oblivion. Ian: So cynical of you! TJTB: Well, this seems further reinforced by the 'Suppose bold woman' stanza, which seems so depressing and regretful to me. Ian: This is the fantasy longing of the "ordinary man, Gerald" but is hopeful, against the odds. I hope he gets lucky and doesn't have to pay for dinner.... --- Ian's answers, however, do not seem to square with the lyrics, at least that's how I see it. Just the word "kismet" itself, defined as "fate" illustrates my point because the word "fate" almost always has negative connotations. For example, take a look at these examples of how the word is normally used (from the Dictionary.com website): fate /feɪt/ Show Spelled [feyt] Show IPA noun, verb, fat·ed, fat·ing. noun 1. something that unavoidably befalls a person; fortune; lot: It is always his fate to be left behind. 2. the universal principle or ultimate agency by which the order of things is presumably prescribed; the decreed cause of events; time: Fate decreed that they would never meet again. 3. that which is inevitably predetermined; destiny: Death is our ineluctable fate. 4. a prophetic declaration of what must be: The oracle pronounced their fate. 5. death, destruction, or ruin. Also, the word "suburbia" taken in context with these gloomy lyrics, implies boredom and ennui, rather than any kind of renewed purpose or "fresh start." So, basically, I guess what I am saying is that Ian's interpretation of his own lyrics is incorrect. Jeff Many of Ian comments surrounding this album contradict the lyrics as well as things he's stated in the past. Years ago Ian stated that TAAB and APP were very much group efforts unlike some other Tull albums, and yet now his perception is that TAAB was very much "his baby". But getting back to the lyrics; I believe Ian said his favorite character was Gerald, the ordinary man. While I guess the ending lyrics may support that, the preceding lyrics suggest a lack of respect for the ordinary man. He writes of Gerald setting his sights low, wasting his time/life, being stuck with Madge, and eating crappy food. |
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Post by jtul07 on Aug 29, 2012 12:36:32 GMT -5
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Post by jtul07 on Aug 29, 2012 12:50:24 GMT -5
So, on the surface, life sucks, shit happens.
But as we age, if we are lucky (and most of the Geralds are) we realize the joy of life
is in the simple pleasures, the things money, power and wealth can't buy.
That's the lesson here my friends IMHO.
I think Ian is wiser here than is all previous works. This is a mature work.
I can't find a line in it that doesn't add to the whole. May I be so bold as to suggest
in the early 70's Ian was a bit of a "wise guy". A little too clever.
Now he seem to express true wisdom, simply, with little flash.
And I think this has been coming out more in his solo works. They are not so GRAND,
but of course, that attracted us geezers in our youth.
Morthoron finds Ian's conclusions "decididly bitter". For the reasons above, I disagree.
I hope I'm not being a Polyanna about this, but Ian's conclusions about
the inevitable twists and turns of life seem largely positive though realistic.
I think they reflect his life in many ways, he has lost much power and influence in his chosen industry.
He once was "second to none" but now seems to be very happy
to just do what he wants, not striving for the top. |
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Post by Bassackwards on Aug 29, 2012 13:11:34 GMT -5
Thanks JT, You in 9th row too?
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Post by jtul07 on Aug 29, 2012 13:19:51 GMT -5
Thanks JT, You in 9th row too? Just about 8 rows closer. ;D Scan your ticket before the show. |
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Post by Nonfatman on Aug 29, 2012 14:02:25 GMT -5
Hey Jeff, good points all but I think some still miss the mark. You wrote "Gerald the Military Man, once a proud and valiant warrior, is alive, but "bowed", You've reversed the words and I believe missed the meaning by doing so. "Bowed but alive" to me implies a new understanding/realization on which he bases his new purpose," helping his brothers". There is not even a hint in the way the song is sung that this is not the case IMHO. Jeff wrote: "Gerald the Banker has lost all of his money, is being charged with tax fraud, despite working so hard his whole life and now having nothing to show for it. He used to live life in the fast lane, snorting coke, buying front row tickets to the hottest events, and fucking beautiful women. He had money, power and a purpose in life." Yes, all that's true but the point of TAAB2 is that that was the past. Then there is realization/redemption due to those past events a "change of horses", and going forward with new realization Gerald the Banker experiences a "Fresh start, another day, another life, a quiet cafe. Starbuck euphoria. COUNT MY BLESSINGS, crossword ready..." In other words a new found appreciation, as many of us have as we near 50, for the simpler things in life, ESPECIALLY after a drama filled youth. Once again, there is no hint in the words or the way the song is sung that Ian means anything other than that. Jeff wrote that G. the chorister is: "exposed as a fraud and is resigned to "lay himself down" to live in loneliness, acquiescence and submission" Ian's words are: "another life so far away from hell-raised aria." this seems a good thing. Also, "Now I lay me down to live in acquiescence, mine to give to all who listen." This implies, I believe, a realization the path he was on led only to pain. He lays down in acquiescence, present tense active, a decision made based on his experience, no one forces him to lay down. A new found purpose is to give the lessons of his life to "all who listen" "Deaf to dark un-heavenly host" His realization that he was inhabited by a dark force, now he does not succumb, he is deaf to it. Seems a good thing to me. I agree with much of what you say about G. the Most ordinary man. But even this incarnation has not fallen much, if any. Even BEORE he had to leave the shop his days were filled with the "Same old words, another day while, all the time, life slips away. But slips so slowly, stretches moments into hours and hours to years. With characters by Harold Pinter, dark silences..." So, he ends up where he started, having not taken a chance in life. Madge was always barren and still is. His model trains were at home though he left the Mallard behind at the shop. We always have to leave something behind when change occurs.(new realization about the song for me!) What the hell, I'm not doing any work, and this is fun, might as well get into G. the Homeless. "Fresh start, another day, my cared-for partner just slipped away from sweet utopia. Bequeathed comforts, ceramic hob, electric blanket, your uncle’s Bob: a pretty picture. Treasured moments, past and present..." Yes, Gerald's partner dies, another big change to out man. Of course that's sad. But what is Gerald left with. He had no home when he started. His family had abandoned him. But with his partner he lived in "sweet utopia". He had a new home and a new family and love for all those years and was "bequeathed comforts" including "treasured moments, past AND present"! So, on the surface, life sucks, shit happens. But as we age, if we are lucky (and most of the Geralds are) we realize the joy of life is in the simple pleasures, the things money, power and wealth can't buy. That's the lesson here my friends IMHO. I think Ian is wiser here than is all previous works. This is a mature work. I can't find a line in it that dosen't add to the whole. May I be so bold as to suggest in the early 70's Ian was a bit of a "wise guy". A little too clever. Now he seem to express true wisdom, simply, with little flash. And I think this has been coming out more in his solo works. They are not so GRAND, but of course, that attracted us geezers in our youth. Morthoron finds Ian's conclusions "decididly bitter". For the reasons above, I disagree. I hope I'm not being a Polyanna about this, but Ian's conclusions about the inevitable twists and turns of life seem largely positive though realistic. I think they reflect his life in many ways, he has lost much power and influence in his chosen industry. He once was "second to none" but now seems to be very happy to just do what he wants, not striving for the top. Beautifully written and argued rejoinder, Jer, and although I do see your point, I'm still left with the feeling that these characters wind up in a very sad and depressed state. Jim makes the point that at least they are all still alive, and in some respects at least, better off than they once were. Great discussion and exchange of thoughts and ideas here, boys. This is what we do. Jeff |
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Post by Bassackwards on Aug 29, 2012 14:34:38 GMT -5
Great fun Jeff, Nice to know folks love this stuff as much as me!
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Post by jtul07 on Aug 29, 2012 17:03:09 GMT -5
Newsflash: Ian does not always give straight answers in interviews!
Jeff
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Post by Nonfatman on Aug 29, 2012 19:48:10 GMT -5
Newsflash: Ian does not always give straight answers in interviews!
Jeff
Jim, I find it a little disturbing that you have faith in anything and everything he says or does.  Jeff |
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Post by jtul07 on Aug 29, 2012 19:59:17 GMT -5
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Post by Nonfatman on Aug 31, 2012 17:53:47 GMT -5
Jim,
My comment was made half-jokingly, but the substance of what I am saying is hard to refute,
and you have not addressed my point.
The gloomy fate of each of the various Geralds, as reflected by the lyrics,
simply does not mesh with what Ian said in these responses.
Newsflash: Ian does not always give straight answers in interviews!
Jeff Here is the point I see: This album reflects survival in a modern world. All of these Geralds can live their lives with imperfect results. When life knocks you down, you can still appreciate what you still have...LIFE. The struggles that are in the lyrics can be overcome with a positive attitude. Fresh start, another day, another life, a quiet cafe. Starbuck euphoria.
Fresh start, another day, another life so far away from hell-raised aria.
Fresh start, another day, another life so far away from white heat Arabia.
Fresh start, another day, another life not so far away in slow-burn suburbia.
Fresh start, another day, my cared-for partner just slipped away from sweet utopia.I think you need to read between the lines and not just the lines. When the music plays with these lyrics, I feel even better. ;D I am reading between the lines, Jim, and that's exactly why I do not take the fresh start lyric at face value, as you do. Despite the excellent points that both you and Jer have made, I still believe there's a hint of irony in those lyrics, when you consider how much each Gerald has lost, and how far they have fallen, without much to look forward to in boring suburbia. Ian's lyrics are rarely straightforward - they frequently have double meanings or other ideas lying just beneath the surface. Let's not forget what immediately follows Kismet. It's the "what if, maybes and might have beens" all over again, leading me back to my conclusion that TAAB2 is an album of regrets, rather than optimism or hope. It may well be deliberately ambiguous, the sort of "glass half empty or half full" notion that you mentioned in an earlier post. Jeff |
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Post by fraser on Feb 19, 2013 10:57:31 GMT -5
These are my favourite lyrics in the order that they appear on the album. The sheer volume of favourites shows just how much I am enjoying the album.
TomTom thinks he knows just where we are (I like the sat-nav reference)
Ripples from a pebble thrown make tsunami on a foreign shore
Treat myself to quality time,
test a porsche and snort a line,
eat Hermione for lunch.
Set that glum PA a-jumping,
book front-row tickets for something after we munch.
Overnight, he did a runner, threatened with harsh expose.
I fell to pieces, dropped out of classes into life's endless melee. (reference to TaaB1 lyrics “the moral melee”?)
Parents listened, didn't get it. Poof and Jesse, Daddy said.
Mummy tried but fussed and fretted, skeletons best left under bed.
How's your father? Not too chipper? (nice turn of phrase)
Serves the bugger flippin' right.
Gerald Something from good-home-on-sea
Thinking back to the child that he once was. (perhaps my favourite line in the whole album)
Men came and went in his moments of madness.
Muttered apologies, late for a meeting.
Too much intensity too much feigned sadness.
Crestfallen, hangdog, glances too fleeting. (pure poetry)
From playing fields to killing fields: just one small step of madness.
No mad poets we, or painters twee but young men with a yearning
to flex our might for all that's right when faced with moral choices.
Hourglass sands run through my veins like blood draining from a salty wound.
Mad Mars forgets the cost of strife, serves no longer, purpose in my life.
I lie in sweat, cry others' tears and write a letter to my Mum,
my wife, my God unheard, unseen, Who never thinks to intervene.
IEDs lie patient, sleeping, wake when soldier boots come creeping.
As rain comes down on Wootton Bassett Town
I sense the power. And I sense the spirit move (with the electric guitar, you really sense the power)
Regulars drop by to chat in idle gossip, repetition.
Same old words, another day while, all the time, life slips away.
Then home to fire up model trains and shunt and shuffle wagons,
locomotive breath upon his brow (a reference to past songs?)
Same old words, another day while all the time life slips away.
But slips so slowly, stretches moments into slow-burn Passion Play (another reference to past songs?)
while barren Madge prepares hot dinner. (who is barren Madge?)
Fray Bentos pie: always a winner.
Comrades' pictures on the mantle, lit by flower-scented candle, ghostly, flicker.
Last man standing, bowed but alive at 33 Mulberry Drive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 8:42:42 GMT -5
One favourite of mine seems apt and timely
"Enough of twisted overkill, Hellfire, damnation, voices shrill.
I was rumbled, de-frocked and tumbled from grace and favour, caught hand in till."
plus all of Kismet
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Post by My God on Feb 21, 2013 11:27:03 GMT -5
Fresh start, Another day.......all of Kismet too! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 13:18:18 GMT -5
Fresh start, Another day.......all of Kismet too! I agree, but I probably lean toward "Gerald: The most ordinary man" I have a question, and maybe it's something obvious that I've missed. Maybe for Pat, is there some cultural or status -like significance in the difference between: 9 Mulberry Gardens 25 Mulberry Close 33 Mulberry Drive 54 Mulberry Lane 17 Mulberry Crescent Or is he just assigning random address to the randomness of each life? Darin |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 13:35:55 GMT -5
Also a comment on those lyrics.
I think that "Fresh start, another day" is very cynical and alludes to the fact that each of the different Geralds is a bit of (if not a major) failure. Once you fail at something the only thing you can say is, okay it's time for a fresh start. Having to say that, once again at this stage of life is a pretty sad state of affairs.......
Darin Cody
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Post by fraser on Feb 21, 2013 18:42:09 GMT -5
Talking about giving yourself over to the dark side, from Power and Spirit: Follow me to serve dark Master, He whose number might be His name. Branded, burning, power unholy, just have to love Him all the same... A bit more sinister than merely being caught “hand-in-till” |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2013 6:06:48 GMT -5
A bit more sinister than merely being caught “hand-in-till” Fraser, That might depend on whose hand is being caught in whose till I suppose. ;D So, by the way, welcome aboard, been a Tull fan for very long? From whereabouts on our small blue sphere do you hail? |
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Just wait and sees. 
!!! 
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 
