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Post by tootull on Apr 23, 2012 9:23:17 GMT -5
Ian Anderson plays...Jethro Tull  Martin objected to the Jethro Tull reference and this cover was recalled.  |
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Post by flutestobranches on Apr 23, 2012 10:01:33 GMT -5
Very interesting opinions here. I enjoy reading them, and the review itself was a thoughtful, heartfelt piece. Well done, Greg! My two cents: I've been a fan for 32 years, and seen umpteen concerts, and consider myself a thoughtful and analytical listener. However, when all is said and done, be it a Tull album or IA solo effort, what matters to me most is: do I enjoy listening to TAAB2? And the answer: Yes, I do, very much!  David |
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Post by My God on Apr 23, 2012 10:08:29 GMT -5
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Post by jtul07 on Apr 23, 2012 10:19:30 GMT -5
Jim's view/posts rule as far as I am concerned. Cheers! Met a man just the other day,
said his name was Jim. Boy, won't you take a look!
Got a car for you it's a real steal.
Cleaned it right down new brakes, clutch and here's the hook.
Yes, it's a 4.W.D. (low ratio).edited for clarity Thank you John for your kind words.  I love that song (4W.D.) no matter what critics say.  |
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Post by TM on Apr 23, 2012 12:49:52 GMT -5
Why all the fuss. I'm glad we have a new album to review. There seems to still be a little hostility toward Florian, and there are some Martin moments, but as far as a little Rupish, I don't think so. All in all a Great album.   Fresh start, another day. No hostility for Florian, just love for Martin and Tull as a band.  |
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Post by Day-glo Steve on Apr 23, 2012 16:15:41 GMT -5
Great review. I 100% agree. My initial total negativity has mellowed to acceptance and enjoyment.. some damned good tunes.. and let's face it.. none of us.. myself .. or the band are in our 20s anymore. !! So we'll never re-experience the brilliance of Barlow in his prime or Ian's poetic lyrics and sublime delivery again. Or indeed our own youthful capacity for the absorption of music in those formative years when it was all so desparately important.. and rightly so !! Better than I could have hoped for to be honest.. I thought it would be really awful based on atrocious output since Roots. And Roots was best offering since the 'real' line up ended after storm watch... Steve Harrison-Harrison
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Post by Koba the Cat on Apr 23, 2012 18:09:07 GMT -5
I will need to duck but am going to fire up the board by stating that I do not consider Thick As A Brick to be a great album. Side one of the vinyl version is very good, even excellent, but the lyrics are after all are intended to be a joke, and it works great on that level. Unfortunately. side two rehashes side one, not as well and laboriously so, and is dragged down by I'm guessing 7 minutes of rambling, disconnected drum solos. To me, listening to Thick As A Brick means side/part 1 and completely skipping side/part 2. It's good, I like it, and have always enjoyed it live especially when longer versions are performed.
TAAB2 now, is a masterpiece. The lyrics are not meant to be a joke or humorous, and as I am also approaching middle age the theme to me is especially germane to my life at the stage I am. To me the entire album succeeds as a cohesive work much better than TAAB 1, the tunes are superior, tighter, and the playing more efficient. I'm not taking anything away from Jethro Tull the band circa 1972, but I think the playing on TAAB 2 is appropriate to today. The keyboards and accordian are wonderful, Florian's guitar playing is a worthy successor of Martin Barre, and I even like the sometimes maligned drumming. Ian's vocals are also much better than anticipated.
I was very skeptical about TAAB2 as being exploitive of the original, and was pissed about Martin not being involved. Upon hearing it though, I not only enjoyed it immensely but found myself moved by it. I love it.
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Rrrrrrrray
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 91
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Post by Rrrrrrrray on Apr 23, 2012 18:29:04 GMT -5
"based on atrocious output since Roots" Sorry Steve, can't let that go with out giving it some defense. Obviously a valid opinion from an individual perspective but not in fact accurate from where I sit, and quite some ways removed from atrocious. I really do need to know where the 2 following pieces from the period you spotlight fall so miserably short of anything prior or to come in IA's canon. I will hold as I always have that those years were not afforded the same respect in terms of time spent listening to the output, on sheer merit of what he had delivered in the past, or people who expect Ian Anderson to be right where they left him in 73. I see nothing wanting in any of the character in these 2 be it melody, lyric or even vocal delivery. Am I missing something? Just what is quite so "atrocious" about these two.
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Nags
Claghornist
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Post by Nags on Apr 23, 2012 19:04:58 GMT -5
A couple months ago I asked Greg (Morthoron) of The Dark Elf Files if he would be interested in writing the "official" review of Ian's Thick As A Brick 2 for our web-board. Greg of course is a very gifted writer, as those of you who have read his Dark Elf Files are well aware.
Well, I am very happy to report that Greg was indeed very interested and completed it yesterday which I present to you all now.
I hope our members will utilize this thread to add their own reviews and thoughts on the record. So don't be shy - feel free to dissect, discuss and even probe a little. ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ian Anderson’s Thick as a Brick 2 (alternatively titled TAAB 2: Whatever Happened to Gerald Bostock? or simply TAAB2) is an album of surfaces. On the surface, TAAB2 is a recapitulation of Jethro Tull’s 1972 progressive rock masterpiece Thick as a Brick. On the surface, Ian Anderson and a band of hired hands try to recapture the musically adventurous and audacious Jethro Tull original recording. On the surface, Gerald Bostock, the main character of the tale, relives his half-century on earth through song and spoken-word poetry, Ian Anderson tries to relive his glory days as eccentric rock star, and we as listeners, ever yearning for what we can’t have, try to relive a revolutionary period of history where music really did make a difference – on the surface. You can never really go back, but the desultory reverie is still comforting in our muddled, work-a-day minds. On the surface, the song “What-ifs, Maybes, and Might-Have-Beens” may well be a more apt title for this project and this review. The question remains if there is anything of worth beneath the surface. I would say the answer is yes, but this affirmative is not absolute, and comes with several qualifiers. The danger here, of course, is having the audacity to call a project "Thick as a Brick 2". Ian Anderson and Jethro Tull were audacious enough to present a single song stretched over two sides of a piece of vinyl and call it Thick as a Brick. They were even more audacious by repeating the process with A Passion Play a year later in 1973. But such audacity was rewarded, as both albums hit #1 in the U.S., an unheard of feat for albums without a hit single, even in the heyday of progressive rock. One could question the 64-year-old Ian Anderson’s motives for recording TAAB2, and a cynic may well consider this effort as one last crass attempt to cash in – as if the immensely wealthy Anderson needed to pad his voluminous retirement coffers - but this concern has been hurled at Anderson previously, most often regarding the ludicrous amount of Jethro Tull remasters, repackagings, anthologies, live recordings, and greatest hits albums he has inundated the market with over the years. But Ian Anderson has always done whatever the hell he wanted, and it is that “fuck you” mentality that has endeared him and his band Jethro Tull to his intensely loyal fans and enraged the rock-critic establishment (themselves often personifications of the term “thick as a brick”), who attacked Tull quite unmercifully, resulting in a hostile war of invective between Anderson and the critics for much of the 1970s. Anderson himself states on j-tull.com: “It was a little daunting to consider the impact – or perhaps lack of – which this release might have on old and new fans alike but I eventually decided that I would embark on this for my own benefit and enjoyment rather than trying to please anyone else at all…Ah, well – you can always go and watch The X Factor and the Eurovision Song Contest.” So, let’s take Ian at his word that TAAB2 is just another eclectic piece of stubborn individualism and not a bit of self-serving promotion. In either case, one confronts the daunting specter of comparison between the epic original and the fledgling newcomer. In this, I believe Mr. Anderson does this release a real and glaring disservice, particularly to the musicians who recorded the album with him and to the music itself. To follow-up a momentous and revered masterpiece with an appendage in afterthought literally invites disappointment and overly critical contrasting. To put it bluntly, TAAB2 is not as good as Thick as Brick – how could it be? In context, Thick as a Brick is one of those albums that is forever memorialized as a pivotal piece of rock history - like In the Court of the Crimson King, Close to the Edge or Selling England by the Pound – the standard by which all progressive rock albums are measured. And you want to do a sequel? WTF! Thick as a Brick was, ostensibly, a single song composed around a “prize-winning” epic poem by the mythical Milton Bostock, an 8-year-old child prodigy whose scandal-ridden youth was reported in a wonderful spoof of a local newspaper, The St. Cleve Chronicle, as part of the cover art of the album itself (one of the finest examples of album cover art in the 1970s). On TAAB2, we find Gerald Bostock at age 50, contemplating his mortality and reviewing the rather sordid samplings of his life history. The differences between the two albums are stark. On Thick as a Brick, incidences of Gerald’s life are wittily recounted in the newspaper album cover, but the poem/lyrics themselves tell an allusive tale with clever wordplay of growing up in post-WWII Britain; whereas, in TAAB2 the songs themselves recount Gerald’s story. The music on Thick as a Brick is an organic flow of musical moods and themes in ever-changing time signatures and tempos without stops – a near-continuous piece of music; while TAAB2 is a broken mosaic of different musical styles and traditionally separated songs with the lyrics as the only unifying theme (and the concept of the album). If one removes the many direct references to the original album (which are welcome, of course, because Thick as a Brick is always a worthwhile listen), then what is most noticeable is that TAAB2 owes less to Thick as a Brick and more to the Ian Anderson 2002 solo album Rupi’s Dance. In fact, you could have titled this release Rupi2, and no one would have noticed the difference. For context, give a critical listen to “Lost in Crowds”, “A Raft of Penguins”, "Pigeon Flying Over Berlin Zoo", “A Hand of Thumbs”, or “A Week of Moments” from Rupi’s Dance and you’ll understand my consternation. It’s not that I dislike Rupi’s Dance, on the contrary, it is a fine Ian Anderson solo album; however, it is an Anderson solo album and not a Jethro Tull album, just as TAAB2 is an Ian solo effort and not a Tull release. Am I splitting hairs here? I do not think so, and thus my main disconnect with TAAB2. To put things in the proper perspective, I would merely point to another great rock performer, Alice Cooper, a direct contemporary of Jethro Tull in the 1970s. At the same time Tull released landmark albums like Aqualung, Thick as Brick, Minstrel in the Gallery and Songs from the Wood, Alice Cooper (meaning in this case a great, cohesive band) released superb rock albums such as Love It to Death, Killer, School’s Out and Billion Dollar Babies. Then Alice Cooper, meaning now the individual performer who changed his name and dropped his band, went on to become a mockery of himself, failing to repeat the success he had in large part to his bandmates Glenn Buxton, Michael Bruce, Dennis Dunaway and Neil Smith. Likewise, Ian Anderson, who has always been the principal songwriter and driving force behind Jethro Tull, an authoritarian figure who has been known to go through musicians like a baby goes through diapers, tries to recreate the mystique of an album that, whatever Mr. Anderson considers to the contrary, was a remarkable effort by a band of incredibly talented individuals that were with him through most of Tull’s greatest successes. Again, like it or not, when you loudly proclaim that you are making a sequel to a great album, this leads to the inevitable comparisons of one band to another. The musicians on TAAB2 are evidently very accomplished (or else Ian Anderson, perfectionist that he is, would have nothing to do with them), but it is obvious that they are following cues here, and that TAAB2 is indeed a solo album. In comparison, Thick as a Brick is an ensemble effort, with long musical passages wherein band members trade fiery salvos at a breathless pace. There is a fire in Thick as a Brick that cannot be found in TAAB2. From a compositional theory standpoint, I suppose one could say that there is a fundamental difference between the explosive passion of youth and the banked embers of middle age, which match the child prodigy and the stodgy 50-year-old. But let’s be honest, we don’t necessarily make philosophical differentiations between two albums, we compare the music and musicians. Guitarist Florian Opahle spends most of the album copying Martin Barre licks. Opahle, although gifted, never gains his own “voice”, so to speak, and one is constantly reminded of Martin’s absence (he had been on all Jethro Tull albums since 1968). Because of all the musical reminders - every last distinctive guitar inflection and monster riff - we recall Barre’s immense input in the making of Tull compositions. Elsewhere, keyboardist John O’Hara in no way matches the classical piano runs and ferocious Hammond organ of John Evan, and the reliance on accordion on many tracks (that foul instrument Tull fans derisively refer to as “the squeezy thing”) in no way perpetuates Evan’s fluent keyboards or the magnificent strings and horns David (Dee) Palmer arranged on Thick as Brick. And let’s not even get into the differences between the thrilling and inventive drumming of Barriemore Barlow (who Led Zep’s John Bonham once called "the greatest rock drummer England ever produced") to the fellow on TAAB2 who keeps a beat like a metronome. You could have borrowed a drum machine from the Under Wraps sessions for all that. That there are no band members from the original album to mark the passing of years and offer continuity is perhaps the greatest mistake Ian Anderson made: this is an approximation of Jethro Tull, but it aint “Tull”. If one divorces oneself from the premise (a big “if” in my estimation), TAAB2 is a very good Ian Anderson solo album. Naturally, there is always the regret over Anderson’s severe throat problems, which constrain his once powerful vocals and leave him nasally and straining. But he overcomes this handicap better here than on many of his previous albums. The spoken word bits are a hit and miss proposition. The poem “Might-Have-Beens” has Ian doing his best Ronald Colman impersonation (see Colman as the medieval poet François Villon in the 1938 film If I Were King), but it is terribly annoying on “Give Till It Hurts” (with Anderson using a dreadful evangelical American accent). Yet the brief acoustic passage that precedes the bible-thumping infomercial babble on “Give Till It Hurts” is the album’s finest example of Ian’s underappreciated abilities on acoustic guitar (and regrettably far too short). Elsewhere, we learn that Gerald Bostock got felt up in school by a pedophilic teacher on "Swing It Far", followed by the two best compositions on the album “Adrift and Dumbfounded” and “Old School Song” which, oddly enough, is a song that best adheres to the spirit of Thick as a Brick, containing almost continuous inferences to the original. The band really seems to gel by the end of the album with their most cohesive efforts musically “Kismet in Suburbia” and "What-ifs, Maybes and Might-Have-Beens", and TAAB2 ends with a nostalgic reprise of the final acoustic passage of Thick as a Brick, which Anderson ruins when he sings the last line as “…and your wise men don’t know how it feels, to be thick as a brick – TWO!” (as if it was necessary to remind us, Ian). I have heard other reviews gushing over the album’s return to a “1970’s sound”; unfortunately, I don’t hear it. Producer Steve Wilson (of the prog-rock band Porcupine Tree) does not give the album the warm ambience of 70s vinyl, it has that digitally sequenced sound that leaves me cold, with keyboards that are lifeless, and flat, mechanical drums. And as I mentioned previously, it doesn’t help matters that TAAB2 has only a passing references to the original instruments and equipment used. There was no “squeezy thing” on the original, and it doesn’t belong here: more Hammond organ, less squeezy thing, please. Oh, and Ian, you could have at least given Dee Palmer a call for some much needed string arrangements! But I digress. We are often most critical of that which we love most, and I have been an ardent fan of Tull since the early 70s. On the surface, and if I compare apples to apples, I can only rate this release two and ½ or perhaps three stars if I’m feeling charitable (on a five star scale, which is what I have rated the original Thick as a Brick). But there is more lurking beneath the surface here, isn’t there? And really, if we look at this album as a release in 2012 and forget its regrettable ties to a masterpiece by Jethro Tull, then it is goddamn good in comparison to the crap that passes for music these days. Therefore, I have to say this is the best solo album Ian Anderson has ever made, and I give it four stars (music, like the economy, is prone to inflation), even with the “what-ifs, maybes and might-have-beens” that mar the surface. Interesting piece, on the surface. Perhaps a bit too Living In The Past (2), for me. It is well writen, but in many ways only scratches the surface, just enough to highlight his views, not support them. While these hings will always be subjective, depending on your view, and I think I have expressed mine, especially about the plyers involved and not, you can take many of his arguments and turn them to support the opposite view. All in all, it does make you think, and feel, so an interesting, if not deep review. Thank you for doing it. |
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Icecreamman
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 88
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Post by Icecreamman on Apr 23, 2012 19:30:43 GMT -5
Well-written, thoughtful review Greg! For someone who was craving the return of a Tull "concept" album all these years, I'm very happy with TAAB2. Last year when the Board fielded questions to pose to Ian Anderson, I asked the following (with no prior knowledge of what we had in store for us, and no powers of prediction---only a wisp of hope):
Michael from New York City ……
Hello Ian!
Q1) In the past you've spoken about not being a fan of the concept of creating a "concept album", after which you placed tongue firmly in cheek and created one of my favorite albums of all, Thick As A Brick, followed by the equally brilliant A Passion Play. I miss the uniqueness of these 70s compositions (as do many other fans of Jethro Tull I know). You created a beautiful "concept" album with Divinities, so I know you can't be TOTALLY against the idea......Any chance for another Tullian "symphony", but this time with words?
Ian: Now, there's an idea. Leave it with me for a bit....
Now I see that Ian had tongue firmly planted in cheek and a surprise up his sleeve when he answered my question!
I appreciate TAAB2 most of all because it is a true "concept" album---and luckily I happen to love its concept as well! I can identify with the theme and lyrics, being on the verge of turning 50 myself, and always wondering "what if" I would have taken a different direction in life (I'm a psychiatrist, but have always wondered what would have happened if I would have pursued a career in music, hence my joining a Jethro Tull tribute band on my off-hours!). I miss concept albums and the way the songs all tie together, like a musical novel, and they are far and few between nowadays.
I didn't expect the music to sound just like the original TAAB, as Ian's musical and lyrical style has evolved over the years (as have the styles of all our favorite artists & bands from the '60s and '70s that continued on over the decades--i.e. Genesis/Peter Gabriel, Yes, Pink Floyd/Roger Waters, Led Zeppelin, Rush, Queen, etc. etc. etc.). So I don't really know why others bother to say it doesn't sound like a Tull album----using that argument, neither do "A" (albeit it was meant initially to be an IA album), "Under Wraps", "Broadsword and the Beast", "Crest of a Knave", and so on, and so on....There has always been a progression of musical style in Jethro Tull albums, beginning with "This Was" onto "Stand Up" onto "Benefit", then "Aqualung", and so on, and so on. This is why Tull can be considered "progressive rock" in one sense. And isn't that why we are never bored with Tull and love them so much?
Still, there are reminders of songs from the different eras of Tull, not just Ian's Rupi's Dance. I hear traces of Thick as a Brick, but also Heavy Horses, Budapest, Farm on the Freeway, Rocks on the Road, White Innocence, Part of the Machine, (and, as pointed out to me by nonfatman, even a humorous and fitting reference to the Aqualung riff on the song about the homeless Gerald Bostock) but none of it sounds exactly like any of those. Plus the music of TAAB2 fits the lyrical theme of each song very well, which makes it ultimately unique. No songs about cats and cappucino---and the music of the new songs, which are about deeper issues, have a deeper resonance for me.
The land of Tull is a much better place for the addition of this new work of Ian's, whether one wants to call it a Tull album or an Ian Anderson album.
P.S. Despite the opinions expressed lately about disliking John O'Hara's "squeezy thing", and the preference for only the Hammond organ (don't get a swollen ego Scott!), I remind everyone of the wonderful accordion playing of John Evans on "Skating Away", "Queen & Country", and "Sea Lion"!
Mike
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Nags
Claghornist
Posts: 30
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Post by Nags on Apr 23, 2012 19:56:46 GMT -5
Well-written, thoughtful review Greg! For someone who was craving the return of a Tull "concept" album all these years, I'm very happy with TAAB2. Last year when the Board fielded questions to pose to Ian Anderson, I asked the following (with no prior knowledge of what we had in store for us, and no powers of prediction---only a wisp of hope): Michael from New York City …… Hello Ian! Q1) In the past you've spoken about not being a fan of the concept of creating a "concept album", after which you placed tongue firmly in cheek and created one of my favorite albums of all, Thick As A Brick, followed by the equally brilliant A Passion Play. I miss the uniqueness of these 70s compositions (as do many other fans of Jethro Tull I know). You created a beautiful "concept" album with Divinities, so I know you can't be TOTALLY against the idea......Any chance for another Tullian "symphony", but this time with words? Ian: Now, there's an idea. Leave it with me for a bit....Now I see that Ian had tongue firmly planted in cheek and a surprise up his sleeve when he answered my question! I appreciate TAAB2 most of all because it is a true "concept" album---and luckily I happen to love its concept as well! I can identify with the theme and lyrics, being on the verge of turning 50 myself, and always wondering "what if" I would have taken a different direction in life (I'm a psychiatrist, but have always wondered what would have happened if I would have pursued a career in music, hence my joining a Jethro Tull tribute band on my off-hours!). I miss concept albums and the way the songs all tie together, like a musical novel, and they are far and few between nowadays. I didn't expect the music to sound just like the original TAAB, as Ian's musical and lyrical style has evolved over the years (as have the styles of all our favorite artists & bands from the '60s and '70s that continued on over the decades--i.e. Genesis/Peter Gabriel, Yes, Pink Floyd/Roger Waters, Led Zeppelin, Rush, Queen, etc. etc. etc.). So I don't really know why others bother to say it doesn't sound like a Tull album----using that argument, neither do "A" (albeit it was meant initially to be an IA album), "Under Wraps", "Broadsword and the Beast", "Crest of a Knave", and so on, and so on....There has always been a progression of musical style in Jethro Tull albums, beginning with "This Was" onto "Stand Up" onto "Benefit", then "Aqualung", and so on, and so on. This is why Tull can be considered "progressive rock" in one sense. And isn't that why we are never bored with Tull and love them so much? Still, there are reminders of songs from the different eras of Tull, not just Ian's Rupi's Dance. I hear traces of Thick as a Brick, but also Heavy Horses, Budapest, Farm on the Freeway, Rocks on the Road, White Innocence, Part of the Machine, (and, as pointed out to me by nonfatman, even a humorous and fitting reference to the Aqualung riff on the song about the homeless Gerald Bostock) but none of it sounds exactly like any of those. Plus the music of TAAB2 fits the lyrical theme of each song very well, which makes it ultimately unique. No songs about cats and cappucino---and the music of the new songs, which are about deeper issues, have a deeper resonance for me. The land of Tull is a much better place for the addition of this new work of Ian's, whether one wants to call it a Tull album or an Ian Anderson album. P.S. Despite the opinions expressed lately about disliking John O'Hara's "squeezy thing", and the preference for only the Hammond organ (don't get a swollen ego Scott!), I remind everyone of the wonderful accordion playing of John Evans on "Skating Away", "Queen & Country", and "Sea Lion"! Mike Well put Mike! Further to your point: Plus the music of TAAB2 fits the lyrical theme of each song very well, which makes it ultimately unique. No songs about cats and cappucino---and the music of the new songs, which are about deeper issues, have a deeper resonance for me. Let's remember that Ian said that with TAAB2, the lyrics came first, then the music, different than past efforts. As I said earlier, it comes down to what you are looking for, if you are looking for new Ian Anderson music in 2012, this is a great piece. If you are looking for a 1972 sequel, players, age and all, then this is not that piece. |
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Post by Karma 41 on Apr 23, 2012 20:27:06 GMT -5
I wish I could agree with your view. Unfortunately, I don't consider TAAB2 to be a masterpiece at all. Initially I was very happy with it because I was afraid that Ian would fail miserably in this endeavor. Well, IMO, he obviously didn't fail, but it in no way compares to the original. I also don't think it should have been called TAAB2 without getting the input of the original members.
The original is a masterpiece. Probably a once in a lifetime masterpiece. An album that was able to raise my spirits on an almost daily basis for at least a decade or more. The new piece can never have that same impact on me ... not with Ian's current vocals and not without the input of the other band members.
It has been my experience that the great works by Tull ceased when the band stopped working as a close-knit unit. Ian has said many times that the most recent material is done in a much more isolated manner. Ian writes the stuff and then sends the score to the other members wherever they happen to be on the globe. I think this is probably the biggest problem with the newer material. Moreover, I really think he should give up singing.
Hey Ian, how about a progressive album of stunning instrumentals ... with flowing acoustic guitar, flute, Martin, and a great drummer. Now, that could be a masterpiece.
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Post by Morthoron on Apr 23, 2012 20:57:50 GMT -5
Well-written, thoughtful review Greg! P.S. Despite the opinions expressed lately about disliking John O'Hara's "squeezy thing", and the preference for only the Hammond organ (don't get a swollen ego Scott!), I remind everyone of the wonderful accordion playing of John Evans on "Skating Away", "Queen & Country", and "Sea Lion"! Mike First of all, thank you kindly, Mike! Second, if you listen closely to War Child, John Evan is playing a synthesizer mocked up to sound like an accordion, not an accordion on the album; thus, the tone is much richer, less reedy sounding. In any case, Evan's playing does not detract from the songs like O'Hara's squeezy thing. Every time I hear it, I expect Edith Piaf in a beret with a loaf of bread under her arm to come out and start singing "Sous le ciel de Paris". Or maybe Marcel Marceau doing a pantomime of Aqualung. ;D |
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Post by tullgetsnorespect on Apr 23, 2012 21:54:39 GMT -5
Sorry if my post is repetitive (and/or antagonistic), but I don't feel like reading the previous posts. I think TAAB2 is fantastic. Ian does not need any of the dead weight of earlier incarnations of Tull to make incredible music. Let's face it, he carried many of these clowns of years. For those of you folks who say that this is not as strong as TAAB, well, you are idiots. Times have changed since 1972. This is an incredible effort with fabulous tracks.
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Icecreamman
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 88
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Post by Icecreamman on Apr 23, 2012 22:02:55 GMT -5
Well-written, thoughtful review Greg! P.S. Despite the opinions expressed lately about disliking John O'Hara's "squeezy thing", and the preference for only the Hammond organ (don't get a swollen ego Scott!), I remind everyone of the wonderful accordion playing of John Evans on "Skating Away", "Queen & Country", and "Sea Lion"! Mike First of all, thank you kindly, Mike! Second, if you listen closely to War Child, John Evan is playing a synthesizer mocked up to sound like an accordion, not an accordion on the album; thus, the tone is much richer, less reedy sounding. In any case, Evan's playing does not detract from the songs like O'Hara's squeezy thing. Every time I hear it, I expect Edith Piaf in a beret with a loaf of bread under her arm to come out and start singing "Sous le ciel de Paris". Or maybe Marcel Marceau doing a pantomime of Aqualung. ;D I happen to like Edith Piaf, but point taken---the songs are very different though, which I think accounts for the different styles of accordion. I beg to differ regarding the use of a synthesizer though--- John Evan is credited with playing the "piano accordion" on the War Child album and plays it well live on the video of Skating Away at the Hippodrome in 1977, so I have to disagree with you on that one. I forgot to mention a fourth song on the album he plays accordion on--Two Fingers. |
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Icecreamman
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 88
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Post by Icecreamman on Apr 23, 2012 22:09:19 GMT -5
First of all, thank you kindly, Mike! Second, if you listen closely to War Child, John Evan is playing a synthesizer mocked up to sound like an accordion, not an accordion on the album; thus, the tone is much richer, less reedy sounding. In any case, Evan's playing does not detract from the songs like O'Hara's squeezy thing. Every time I hear it, I expect Edith Piaf in a beret with a loaf of bread under her arm to come out and start singing "Sous le ciel de Paris". Or maybe Marcel Marceau doing a pantomime of Aqualung. ;D I happen to like Edith Piaf, but point taken---the songs are very different though, which I think accounts for the different styles of accordion. I beg to differ regarding the use of a synthesizer though--- John Evan is credited with playing the "piano accordion" on the War Child album and plays it well live on the video of Skating Away at the Hippodrome in 1977, so I have to disagree with you on that one. I forgot to mention a fourth song on the album he plays accordion on--Two Fingers. One other point I forgot to add: I believe the original version of A Change of Horses featured Anoushka Shankar playing sitar instead of accordion? I heard Ian say in an interview that he hoped to get her to play on the album and that she coincidentally was on tour in England at the time they were recording the album, but he didn't want to trouble her during her tour. Bummer--that would have sounded nice... |
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Post by Morthoron on Apr 23, 2012 22:18:35 GMT -5
Interesting piece, on the surface. Perhaps a bit too Living In The Past (2), for me. It is well writen, but in many ways only scratches the surface, just enough to highlight his views, not support them. While these hings will always be subjective, depending on your view, and I think I have expressed mine, especially about the plyers involved and not, you can take many of his arguments and turn them to support the opposite view. All in all, it does make you think, and feel, so an interesting, if not deep review. Thank you for doing it. I would thank you in return, but since you damn with faint praise, I see no point in civility. I set a limit of 2000 words. If I wished to bore people silly, I could have delved into time signatures, tempo changes and eighth notes for another 2000 words. The piece regarded the concept for the most part, and talking points to allow greater discussion on this forum. I steadfastly maintain that Mr. Anderson did the music and the musicians a disservice by implementing this concept - and clearly, the musicians just go through their paces as hired musicians do working behind a solo artist. The cynic in me has more than an inkling that Ian was piggybacking on a far greater work in order to sell more albums. And if one is objective, that is exactly what he did. Anderson has spent more on pre-release advertising and has been more visible shilling this album than on any release since the mid-70s. What is at issue is that he could have made this album without the allusions to Thick as a Brick, and it would have still been an excellent solo album; however, it would have been a blip on the Billboard 200, like his last ten albums or so. If you would like to turn the arguments around, please try do so. I will argue with anyone while maintaining impeccable spelling and grammar. ;D Further to your point: Plus the music of TAAB2 fits the lyrical theme of each song very well, which makes it ultimately unique. No songs about cats and cappucino... If you are looking for a 1972 sequel, players, age and all, then this is not that piece. He did mention Starbucks a few times, and merely replaced the pussy with a pedophile. And I wasn't looking for a "1972 sequel", Ian brought that up, and quite loudly, all by himself. Ergo, the inevitable comparisons. |
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anthonystjames
Claghornist
Heard The Wise Man Breaks Wind boot for the first time this weekend. I'm still recovering.
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Post by anthonystjames on Apr 24, 2012 1:04:33 GMT -5
This is a well-written and fair review. Like someone else posted, "Wootton" and "Banker" deserve at least a mention. After seeing some recent live clips on youTube, I must reiterate that I am overjoyed that Ian has AT LONG LAST added some vocal help, and the additional vocals really come to the fore on the classic "Thick" in concert. BTW, I'm still liking the new album more every day...and I agree that it's definitely Ian's best solo album.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2012 2:01:02 GMT -5
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
Good work Morthoron.
I, on the other hand happen to agree with most all of the "official" 2000 words. Nice arc to your points, just when I'd start to feel uneasy about the direction you were heading, your point would swoop in and I'd get it. Nice job Greg.
I have been struggling with all the back and forth here as to whether this is "Tull" without Martin, an Ian solo work, how it does or doesn't stack up against the original, and so on and so on and..
I'm afraid my discomfort with all this is with the complex problem that Ian has presented us. He has done a sequel, as a "solo artist" of a very large piece of Tull's.
Now when I say Tull, thats a group, not just Ian. Even if a lot of people like to go over the top saying "Ian is Tull!" it is just not the case. When Ian writes (or wrote) songs he is writing lyrics to sometimes just simple chording put forth on his guitar. In the context of the 1972 group he would present it to John, Martin and Barrie (not discounting Jeffery, I just dont think he was a musical "driver") and they would throw musical ideas back and forth with Ian and arrive at something as a group..... in the same room. Many times Ian has said that the complex musical arrangements (the "trouble" as he put it) came about when he'd left the room!
I think that people wrongly credit Ian with the "arrangements". Even though the band is most always credited that way on albums, I believe a lot of people dont have a true grasp of what that means. These guys made TAAB sound the way it sounds. John and Barries musical input cannot be understated. If there was a time signature change, odds are Barrie was behind it (or helped disguise it!). John was a very musically sophisticated player and probably schooled Ian more than vice a versa. The musical product that was TAAB of 1972 was very, very much a group effort. They didn't just take musical instruction from Ian.
Now....
The Ian of today, the 65 five year old singer/songwriter with a scratchy voice, and disposition. This Ian has become comfortable writing in his own space and handing out parts to some very competent musicians. Guys that he has become used to dealing with. At 65, comfort cannot be underrated I'm sure!
These guys are not all old school chums that are a "band". These guys are together because Ian has hired them for his project. They are not there to push and pull Ians ideas around to suit there own tastes, musical strengths or make it into something this way or that. They are being paid to execute Ians ideas, and Ians ideas alone! I suspect that the problems with some of Ian's earlier solo efforts (SLOB and Rupi) stem from having no collaborator or foil. No sounding board to help him polish his basic song form and musical ideas. Of course his lyics are, as always, all his.
"Walk Into Light" had Vettesse, "Divinities" had Giddings and "A" had Jobson. These 3, I think many here would agree, are far stronger than SLOB or Rupi's"
I'm betting the better tracks on TAAB 2 benefit very much from his working with this "unit" over the last few years.
All that said,
THE CONCEPT of TAAB2 is in the lyric!
The concept, the story of Gerald and "What If's, Maybes and Might've Beens" is, to my tired old head, excellent, very clever and even poignant. The concept is the content here. The music has been paired down to basics here service the story. It reminds me more of an actual play. This is probably the most straight forward ideas Ian has ever put forth, kind of surprising given what that he's following up TAAB.
Comparing who's not playing the Hammond like John Evan or the lack of Martin's "style" in Florians playing is absolutely useless! It doesn't mean a thing. 1972 was a loooong time ago and "Tull" or Ian will never sound that particular way again. It was the chemistry and musicianship of a certain five guys in their early twenties that produced that wonderful stuff.
I will take this as it is..... Ian using his usual talents and putting them forth in the situation he's in TODAY. So far I like it myself.......the "buzz" is kind of nice too......I mean all the news. Ian could stop doing interviews for a bit now, I usually eat up his interviews but I've found myself skipping through them lately, too many too.....
Now, I'll wait to see it for myself (just down the street, in the 9th row) and that's just around the corner..........in October(!)
Darin Cody
and don't ever challenge Greg without your spell check on!!!
Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Post by Chea on Apr 24, 2012 5:09:40 GMT -5
Hi to All. In Italy we have been very lucky because we have had much dates for the I.A or J.T concert every years . Probably it works well, because there is an important and meaningful new for we Fans. In a special one that classifies music "TV Smiles and Songs", for many years there were no Tull albums. Thick as a Brick 2 is now listed at #45 in Italy. I am very happy for this. M. |
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Post by My God on Apr 24, 2012 8:56:21 GMT -5
This is a well-written and fair review. Like someone else posted, "Wootton" and "Banker" deserve at least a mention. After seeing some recent live clips on youTube, I must reiterate that I am overjoyed that Ian has AT LONG LAST added some vocal help, and the additional vocals really come to the fore on the classic "Thick" in concert. BTW, I'm still liking the new album more every day...and I agree that it's definitely Ian's best solo album. I'm tempted to say a Tull album. Really!  What ifs, Maybes, and Might Have Beens. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2012 9:44:31 GMT -5
One, two! One, two! And through and through The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! He left it dead, and with its head He went galumphing back. Good work Morthoron. I, on the other hand happen to agree with most all of the "official" 2000 words. Nice arc to your points, just when I'd start to feel uneasy about the direction you were heading, your point would swoop in and I'd get it. Nice job Greg. I have been struggling with all the back and forth here as to whether this is "Tull" without Martin, an Ian solo work, how it does or doesn't stack up against the original, and so on and so on and.. I'm afraid my discomfort with all this is with the complex problem that Ian has presented us. He has done a sequel, as a "solo artist" of a very large piece of Tull's. Now when I say Tull, thats a group, not just Ian. Even if a lot of people like to go over the top saying "Ian is Tull!" it is just not the case. When Ian writes (or wrote) songs he is writing lyrics to sometimes just simple chording put forth on his guitar. In the context of the 1972 group he would present it to John, Martin and Barrie (not discounting Jeffery, I just dont think he was a musical "driver") and they would throw musical ideas back and forth with Ian and arrive at something as a group..... in the same room. Many times Ian has said that the complex musical arrangements (the "trouble" as he put it) came about when he'd left the room! I think that people wrongly credit Ian with the "arrangements". Even though the band is most always credited that way on albums, I believe a lot of people dont have a true grasp of what that means. These guys made TAAB sound the way it sounds. John and Barries musical input cannot be understated. If there was a time signature change, odds are Barrie was behind it (or helped disguise it!). John was a very musically sophisticated player and probably schooled Ian more than vice a versa. The musical product that was TAAB of 1972 was very, very much a group effort. They didn't just take musical instruction from Ian. Now.... The Ian of today, the 65 five year old singer/songwriter with a scratchy voice, and disposition. This Ian has become comfortable writing in his own space and handing out parts to some very competent musicians. Guys that he has become used to dealing with. At 65, comfort cannot be underrated I'm sure! These guys are not all old school chums that are a "band". These guys are together because Ian has hired them for his project. They are not there to push and pull Ians ideas around to suit there own tastes, musical strengths or make it into something this way or that. They are being paid to execute Ians ideas, and Ians ideas alone! I suspect that the problems with some of Ian's earlier solo efforts (SLOB and Rupi) stem from having no collaborator or foil. No sounding board to help him polish his basic song form and musical ideas. Of course his lyics are, as always, all his. "Walk Into Light" had Vettesse, "Divinities" had Giddings and "A" had Jobson. These 3, I think many here would agree, are far stronger than SLOB or Rupi's" I'm betting the better tracks on TAAB 2 benefit very much from his working with this "unit" over the last few years. All that said, THE CONCEPT of TAAB2 is in the lyric! The concept, the story of Gerald and "What If's, Maybes and Might've Beens" is, to my tired old head, excellent, very clever and even poignant. The concept is the content here. The music has been paired down to basics here service the story. It reminds me more of an actual play. This is probably the most straight forward ideas Ian has ever put forth, kind of surprising given what that he's following up TAAB. Comparing who's not playing the Hammond like John Evan or the lack of Martin's "style" in Florians playing is absolutely useless! It doesn't mean a thing. 1972 was a loooong time ago and "Tull" or Ian will never sound that particular way again. It was the chemistry and musicianship of a certain five guys in their early twenties that produced that wonderful stuff. I will take this as it is..... Ian using his usual talents and putting them forth in the situation he's in TODAY. So far I like it myself.......the "buzz" is kind of nice too......I mean all the news. Ian could stop doing interviews for a bit now, I usually eat up his interviews but I've found myself skipping through them lately, too many too..... Now, I'll wait to see it for myself (just down the street, in the 9th row) and that's just around the corner..........in October(!) Darin Cody and don't ever challenge Greg without your spell check on!!! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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Post by jtul07 on Apr 24, 2012 9:46:05 GMT -5
I'm tempted to say a Tull album. Really! What ifs, Maybes, and Might Have Beens. We must eventually say the words.  Ian won't but I will.  I did last weekend at the Record Store and everyone agreed. |
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Post by TM on Apr 24, 2012 10:17:19 GMT -5
I'm tempted to say a Tull album. Really! What ifs, Maybes, and Might Have Beens. We must eventually say the words. Ian won't but I will. I did last weekend at the Record Store and everyone agreed. How dare you Jim.....how dare you!  |
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Post by jtul07 on Apr 24, 2012 10:32:52 GMT -5
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I love that song (4W.D.) no matter what critics say. 
Ian won't but I will. 
