Tullite
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
Posts: 174
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Post by Tullite on Apr 25, 2012 17:04:45 GMT -5
 the missleading poster outside the venue !!. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2012 17:06:27 GMT -5
For someone who is not a "real musician" (besides the obvious chemistry with the others) JHH still managed to physically play the most complex Tull basslines in the whole cannon! While jumping around all over the place.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2012 17:08:35 GMT -5
So Martin and Doane will be there??  the missleading poster outside the venue !!. |
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Post by Koba the Cat on Apr 25, 2012 17:10:25 GMT -5
Darin and everyone else: I just wanted to clarify my two posts were directed at the board's conversation in general not anyone specific.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2012 17:28:46 GMT -5
Darin and everyone else: I just wanted to clarify my two posts were directed at the board's conversation in general not anyone specific. Yeah Koba, wasn't trying to be contentious at all towards you, just trying to address some details that others here seemed to be "missing" in the over all conversation. No offense mean't hope none taken. Darin |
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Nags
Claghornist
Posts: 30
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Post by Nags on Apr 25, 2012 17:57:09 GMT -5
Well thanks for the lesson, but I think I can find a legion of Floyd fans who might mension Sid Barrett. Undoubtedly Syd Barrett would be mentioned, but how many will know the series of concerts where Syd was propped up in a corner mumbling insanely while Gilmour did his parts? He did just one album (Pipers at the Gates of Dawn, 1967) and another (Saucerful of Secrets, 1968) where Gilmour was already a full member. Who in their right mind wouldn't consider Gilmour an integral part of the sound of Floyd? Likewise, Mick Abraham is the footnote, not Martin Barre. The only change from 72 to 79 was Jeffrey Hammond retiring and John Glascock taking his place, and David Palmer no longer just doing orchestral arrangements (which he had been doing for Tull since 68), but adding portative organ and synth on several albums as well (and composing the stately and sad "Elegy" for Stormwatch). Everyone of their greatest albums from TAAB to Stormwatch had basically the same cast of characters, save for Glascock. What better band? What changing cast? Your revisionism conveniently omits fact. I don't miss much of anyone past 1979, because that's when Ian started his revolving door policy, and became an insuffereable egoist. And if you are honest, you'll admit the music suffered tremendously. Say what you will, but their is appreciable difference in the quality of work from the bands as well as Ian's songwriting and arrangements post-Stormwatch. I do have a soft spot for Dave Pegg, but mostly because I prefer his work in Fairport Convention (who I've seen countless times). The hilarious thing is he kept nonentities like Noyce around for years. TAAB2 is definitely an improvement over something like Dot Com, and slots in well with Secret Language of Birds and Rupi's Dance, where Ian is the central focus from start to finish and each musician plays their assigned parts they were hired to do. There are no extended jams which Ian is not part of, and no noticeable differentiation from one bassist, drummer or keyboardist to the next. And that's fine, all solo albums are pretty much like that. TAAB2 is a fine solo album. The music hasn't gotten better. And except for a brief period around Crest of a Knave, the concerts were not nearly as good as the ones I saw pre-"A". You can argue the point all you'd like, but all one need do is look at concert footage to tell the difference. Like the Minstrel in the Gallery clips I provided. It is quite evident. No swipe at Florian, but as a guitarist I can tell you that nearly every riff was borrowed from Barre for TAAB2. There's not a shred of Florian's own style evident in the album. So what's the point? History will show Tull making several landmark progressive and prog-folk albums in the 70s, Ian with a new cast of characters trying to revise his sound in order to stay hip in the early 80s (and failing miserably), Tull stealing a Grammy from Metallica in 1987, and not much else afterward but Ian's strained vocals that are often painful to listen to. Who hasn't been to a show in the last 30 years that hasn't winced on several occasions? These days, it's better to listen to Ian during acoustic sets. I go to the bathroom if he tries to sing "Songs from the Wood". I remember seeing his lounge tour to support Rupi's Dance, and a whole row of people all cringeing simultaneously while he was singing "A Hand of Thumbs". But hey, I can always use a history lesson, as I am the first to admit that I have only seen them for the past 42 years, I am sure I missed something, right?!? I don't know what it was you listening to for 42 years. So yeah, I think you missed a great deal. Well to be clear, I was listening to and attending Jethro Tull, I don't think I am missing anything but the option to buy into your view, frankly nothing you said changes things, just more parsing. But that is alright, music is subjective, and we will each drink our own Kool Aid. The one thing that escapes me is why if you gave up on things in 1979, why you are so passionate and active on a board dealing with the egotist's band? And I mad not trying to antagonize, but really if it is so bad, and has been for three decades plus, why? |
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Post by flutestobranches on Apr 25, 2012 18:05:46 GMT -5
the missleading poster outside the venue !!. Wow! While I am not broken up about Martin being absent from TAAB2 (and I love the album more and more each time I play it), I DO get mildly annoyed when I see posters outside of venues that feature the wrong line-ups. It's not THAT difficult to do the research to get this right, is it?  Technically it's false advertising, but only hard-core fans like us would notice, I suppose. David |
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Post by TM on Apr 25, 2012 18:14:13 GMT -5
What's a record store?  Oddly enough, when I bought the deluxe edition of TAAB2 in my local FYE store, the price sticker read: "Jethro Tull: Thick as a Brick 2!"  David Same here David. There was nothing under Ian's name. It was filed under JT at Barnes & Noble. It's on Amazon under both names. |
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Post by Morthoron on Apr 25, 2012 20:43:28 GMT -5
The one thing that escapes me is why if you gave up on things in 1979, why you are so passionate and active on a board dealing with the egotist's band? And I mad not trying to antagonize, but really if it is so bad, and has been for three decades plus, why? I was fully expecting this comment from you. How amusing. This is a "Jethro Tull" forum last time I checked, a band that's been around since 1968. It's not a lick Ian Anderson's scrotum forum, where everyone must agree with everything Ian does like a circle jerk of prepubescent fanbois. But if that's what you'd prefer, Nag, then go at it. It takes various voices to fill a choir, at one time even castratos. After '79, I didn't go to shows strictly for Ian (I skipped A and Under Wraps altogether), I am also a fan of Pegg and Martin when they were about (the '87 show where Pegg was on stage for both Fairport and Tull's entire sets was stellar - and I think Fairport outplayed Tull in that one). But I have been going less and less since. Perhaps it's a nostalgia thing, and my wife still demands that we go. I did enjoy the last two Ian efforts I saw (Rubbing Elbows and Orchestral Tull) precisely because he was more acoustic in one (Elbows) and more instrumental in another (Orchestral) and didn't tax his voice overmuch. Plus the venues (the State Theater and Orchestra Hall in Detroit) were intimate and acoustically excellent - the perfect places for him at this juncture in his career. They were solo gigs with basically the same hired hands as on TAAB2. They blended into the background like wallpaper at McDonalds. I am first and foremost a music lover, and am passionate about the process. I could just as passionately argue about the different versions of Yes or Genesis if you'd like. But Tull is my favorite band, it's just that I don't care for all their albums. As a matter of fact, I don't believe there's any rock bands whose albums I've liked from start to finish. Maybe Derek and the Dominos, because they only made one. |
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Post by TM on Apr 25, 2012 22:09:41 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks Ian maybe taking a shot at us in TAAB2 with his talk of trainspotting? I seem to recall he referred to his most ardent supporters as trainspotters. In any case he seems to almost celebrate Gerald's homeless lifestyle while dissing him as an ordinary man. Thoughts?  |
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Post by maddhatter on Apr 26, 2012 6:47:58 GMT -5
Stop pontificating,disecting and comparing every little thing and just ENJOY THE MUSIC.
I was at Manchester on Sunday and enjoyed every note of both Bricks. Enjoy the music.Enjoy the shows .Heaven knows we have waited long enough.......and who knows it might just be the last.!!!!!
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Post by egrorian on Apr 26, 2012 6:54:10 GMT -5
This is not a dig at Morthoron - who's reply to Nags was well argued - but does make me think of the Gary Numan forum where there are a number of members who insist Numan has done nothing worthwhile since 1981 yet seem to be on the forum slagging him off for hours every day. I don't get that either - don't they have something better to do with their time?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 7:15:23 GMT -5
Greg, really grateful for the balanced review, seems whatever side you take, there are always detractors, but please keep on doing what you do, far from ponitifcation, it is the honest, thoughtful well constructed contributions from the majority of The Board's members that make the difference.
Reasoned argument, for or against, is welcomed, but sadly some have to bring it down to shouting and abuse.
Still, Sensitive and caring seems the lighter, brighter way to be.
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Rrrrrrrray
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 91
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Post by Rrrrrrrray on Apr 26, 2012 7:39:23 GMT -5
For someone who is not a "real musician" (besides the obvious chemistry with the others) JHH still managed to physically play the most complex Tull basslines in the whole cannon! While jumping around all over the place. I will always question that the likes of the Passion Play are necessarily the most "difficult" things in the catalogue to play. I believe precisely the failing, in a relative sense, of their 73-5 music is that it occasionally falls prey to "getting up its own arse", re, doing things with time changes and dissonance, sweet or otherwise that may not be in the best interests of the piece to which it is attached, so much as, look at us, we're serious musicians mom. I have read jazz musicians say ballads are the most difficult to play well so far all I know Wondring Aloud may be more difficult to play properly than A Passion Play. Plus complex and music are often uneasy bedfellows, depends who's dealin, if its a prog musician, take 3 steps away. Or is it necessarily more difficult to play than the curiously loathed Eurology? I ain't so sure. |
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Rrrrrrrray
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 91
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Post by Rrrrrrrray on Apr 26, 2012 7:42:32 GMT -5
"Minstrel in the Gallery, not a song or album I consider a particular feather in Ian's cap" See me cry, laugh, cry. Kicked in the favourite album.  Yeah, but life remains unpredictable enough that I could put Minstrel on today, and it may sound at or near the best thing in their catalogue. I sometimes wonder if my perceptions of their ancient material is having heard it so very much in the seventies, and in some part all the years since. No Tull album has ever impressed me more on first listen...not necessarily a good thing. I do like that "in the lamentable absence of your guests bit" In fact I like lots of it, Black Satin, Mother England, Nice Little Tune. Minstrel, One White Duck? Excess verbage among other crimes. |
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Post by TM on Apr 26, 2012 9:51:21 GMT -5
Stop pontificating,disecting and comparing every little thing and just ENJOY THE MUSIC. I was at Manchester on Sunday and enjoyed every note of both Bricks. Enjoy the music.Enjoy the shows .Heaven knows we have waited long enough.......and who knows it might just be the last.!!!!! The open expression of ideas is what this board is all about. Everyone's views are welcome and valid including yours. Glad you enjoyed the show on Sunday. |
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Post by Koba the Cat on Apr 26, 2012 10:05:42 GMT -5
My experience with Tull/IA (Hey, why doesn't IA just bill new releases as 'I.A. Tull'? LOL it would make it easier for me to type) is that I rarely like the albums on the first listen but need to hear them a few times to get them under my skin, then I can enjoy them fully. TAAB2 was a rare exception in that i loved it instantly.
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Post by My God on Apr 26, 2012 10:24:15 GMT -5
My experience with Tull/IA (Hey, why doesn't IA just bill new releases as 'I.A. Tull'? LOL it would make it easier for me to type) is that I rarely like the albums on the first listen but need to hear them a few times to get them under my skin, then I can enjoy them fully. TAAB2 was a rare exception in that i loved it instantly. Me too. I loved it from first listen. Kinda' like love at first sight. TAAB2=Tull. Why not admit the Truth.  Journeys I might never take. |
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Post by My God on Apr 26, 2012 10:46:08 GMT -5
Stop pontificating,disecting and comparing every little thing and just ENJOY THE MUSIC. I was at Manchester on Sunday and enjoyed every note of both Bricks. Enjoy the music.Enjoy the shows .Heaven knows we have waited long enough.......and who knows it might just be the last.!!!!! The open expression of ideas is what this board is all about. Everyone's views are welcome and valid including yours. Glad you enjoyed the show on Sunday. That's right, open expression of ideas is what The Board is all about. Even someone like me with limited mental abilities.  My God, unheard, unseen. |
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Post by tootull on Apr 26, 2012 11:24:45 GMT -5
The open expression of ideas is what this board is all about. Everyone's views are welcome and valid including yours. Glad you enjoyed the show on Sunday. That's right, open expression of ideas is what The Board is all about. Even someone like me with limited mental abilities. My God, unheard, unseen. mental that's all ;D |
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Post by tootull on Apr 26, 2012 12:48:16 GMT -5
"Minstrel in the Gallery, not a song or album I consider a particular feather in Ian's cap" See me cry, laugh, cry. Kicked in the favourite album. Yeah, but life remains unpredictable enough that I could put Minstrel on today, and it may sound at or near the best thing in their catalogue. I sometimes wonder if my perceptions of their ancient material is having heard it so very much in the seventies, and in some part all the years since. No Tull album has ever impressed me more on first listen...not necessarily a good thing. I do like that "in the lamentable absence of your guests bit" In fact I like lots of it, Black Satin, Mother England, Nice Little Tune. Minstrel, One White Duck? Excess verbage among other crimes. "In fact I like lots of it, Black Satin, Mother England, Nice Little Tune. Minstrel, One White Duck?" Good to read. It was the hardest Tull album for me to get into back then, it's burned to my brain now. Baker St. Muse is one of the finest moments in prog. Avatar-NHL original six (sad) |
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Nags
Claghornist
Posts: 30
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Post by Nags on Apr 26, 2012 14:10:57 GMT -5
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Post by TM on Apr 26, 2012 14:23:39 GMT -5
It's comical to suggest Martin and Doane couldn't handle this tour. |
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Post by tootull on Apr 26, 2012 14:26:56 GMT -5
The album as a whole piece is really starting to shine for me. Thanks to all involved. I'll admit this...guitarist Florian Opahle, bassist David Goodier, drummer Scott Hammond and keyboardist John O’Hara — are musical virtuosos "Let’s be honest – those that love the modern classic Tull line up (diehard fans will know what that means) don’t want to admit that the players Anderson chose for this solo project — guitarist Florian Opahle, bassist David Goodier, drummer Scott Hammond and keyboardist John O’Hara — are musical virtuosos. Clearly, they are as evidenced by their masterful interpretation of the intricate music of TAAB and TAABII and the additional flourishes including solos with nods to the audience." |
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Nags
Claghornist
Posts: 30
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Post by Nags on Apr 26, 2012 15:08:42 GMT -5
It's comical to suggest Martin and Doane couldn't handle this tour. I don't think the review said that, why read that into it; I think it is just a question of wanting to stretch beyond the comfort of the "boxed" Tull, and doing it with others. As I suggested long ago, perhaps the change in players is Ian's ultimate "what if, might have been" with an alternate cast. Now he knows it would work as well. No one said can't, it's just this time they didn't, still a great album, and I hear the show rock too. If only Martin could sing, he could have taken Ryan's place |
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Technically it's false advertising, but only hard-core fans like us would notice, I suppose. 
