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Post by TM on Jun 28, 2012 11:42:00 GMT -5
For the last time, I am not slagging Martin, It is inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, Martin is an also ran guitarist - who should shut up and play his guitar. Maybe you should play something. Darin Oh he is Darin. He's playing with us.
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skytzo
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
Posts: 123
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Post by skytzo on Jun 28, 2012 12:01:45 GMT -5
Maybe you should play something. Darin Oh he is Darin. He's playing with us. I believe the term is trolling.
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Heavy Horse
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 92
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Post by Heavy Horse on Jun 28, 2012 12:10:53 GMT -5
As for Florian's playing on this record, I get the feeling as did you that he is playing in the style of Martin. But something is missing. Maybe it was Florian's interpretation of what the guitar should sound like, or maybe it was Ian's input - or maybe it was both. But at the end of the day it was close, but it just wasn't "there". Banker Bets is a perfect example of this. The guitar solo is nice, but it's just a solo. There's nothing that truly grabs you - no signature there. It could be anyone playing it. Martin's guitar solos give you chills. That's the difference. This is a problem experienced by a lot of musicians in tribute bands. I have played bass in a Beatles band, and I play guitars and mandolin in a cover duo/band, so I know a bit about it... As I'm sure plenty of others on here do! I agree that the Banker Bets solo is nothing special, but I believe Florian's still finding his voice in Tull/IA Band. Florian is doubtless technically able to exactly copy Martin's style - dynamics, choice of notes etc. if he wanted to but, the nearer he gets, the more noticeable would be the "something missing". Apart from that, he's going to want to bring his own way of playing in as well at some point, and it's this dilemma which leads to some things being well... Just Plain Different! I sound like I'm supporting Florian, at the expense of Martin, but I'm really not! I'm sure no one else would have partenered Ian so generously, throughout the years. Martin has been so integral to Tull, but I won't miss him live if Forian treats his guitar work with respect and if this enables Ian to kick-start Tull now, with some new material then I'll be happier than I would be waiting the greatest hits tour to grind round again!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 13:02:37 GMT -5
As for Florian's playing on this record, I get the feeling as did you that he is playing in the style of Martin. But something is missing. Maybe it was Florian's interpretation of what the guitar should sound like, or maybe it was Ian's input - or maybe it was both. But at the end of the day it was close, but it just wasn't "there". Banker Bets is a perfect example of this. The guitar solo is nice, but it's just a solo. There's nothing that truly grabs you - no signature there. It could be anyone playing it. Martin's guitar solos give you chills. That's the difference. This is a problem experienced by a lot of musicians in tribute bands. I have played bass in a Beatles band, and I play guitars and mandolin in a cover duo/band, so I know a bit about it... As I'm sure plenty of others on here do! I agree that the Banker Bets solo is nothing special, but I believe Florian's still finding his voice in Tull/IA Band. Florian is doubtless technically able to exactly copy Martin's style - dynamics, choice of notes etc. if he wanted to but, the nearer he gets, the more noticeable would be the "something missing". Apart from that, he's going to want to bring his own way of playing in as well at some point, and it's this dilemma which leads to some things being well... Just Plain Different! I sound like I'm supporting Florian, at the expense of Martin, but I'm really not! I'm sure no one else would have partenered Ian so generously, throughout the years. Martin has been so integral to Tull, but I won't miss him live if Forian treats his guitar work with respect and if this enables Ian to kick-start Tull now, with some new material then I'll be happier than I would be waiting the greatest hits tour to grind round again! Yep, I totally agree HH nicely put. I don't think you have to qualify your views though, there are no "sides" (just a couple of folks tossing gasoline on the fire) The problems with what we've been addressing DO exist. I think that the guys in Ian's band do have to distinguish themselves in their own way, a pretty heavy job considering what that they are being judged on what and who came before them. I think Ian's decision to not do much other Tull material (aside from one monster Tull song hahaha) on this tour is a good one. Do TAAB 2, get comfortable playing their "own" stuff. Grow on it. Florian comes from a flamenco style of playing and then asked to become a rock guy, he has some chops to develop aside from learning Martin's lines. When Divinities came out out I thought hmmmmm could be boring as all get out. Then I went to see the show. A folk violinist (I don't remember his name) Doane on electronic drums Andy on synths and Jon Noyce. A strange recipe. With the solo bits and little jams they did between the songs it took on a great character, very prog. (Doane and Noyce did a great piece, yes Noyce!! I know..) Something I hadn't seen from Ian since APP. I'm not comparing the two, just the impression I had that I'd seen something completely out of the ordinary and entertaining. After that they unfortunately did the first version of "Aquadiddly" ... almost ruined the whole show. ;-) Point being that given half a chance (by Ian) this new band could do cool things. Ian just needs to loosen his grip is all and let them stretch there own legs a bit. I heard one recording of the solo in Banker Bets by Florian that actually smoked (Im sure it varies from night to night) so he has it in him. Doing cover material can be a real trap for a musician, it's hard to get out from under and shine. Darin 4 and a half cents and 2 stars Cody
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 17:15:31 GMT -5
This is a problem experienced by a lot of musicians in tribute bands. I have played bass in a Beatles band, and I play guitars and mandolin in a cover duo/band, so I know a bit about it... As I'm sure plenty of others on here do! I agree that the Banker Bets solo is nothing special, but I believe Florian's still finding his voice in Tull/IA Band. Florian is doubtless technically able to exactly copy Martin's style - dynamics, choice of notes etc. if he wanted to but, the nearer he gets, the more noticeable would be the "something missing". Apart from that, he's going to want to bring his own way of playing in as well at some point, and it's this dilemma which leads to some things being well... Just Plain Different! I sound like I'm supporting Florian, at the expense of Martin, but I'm really not! I'm sure no one else would have partenered Ian so generously, throughout the years. Martin has been so integral to Tull, but I won't miss him live if Forian treats his guitar work with respect and if this enables Ian to kick-start Tull now, with some new material then I'll be happier than I would be waiting the greatest hits tour to grind round again! Yep, I totally agree HH nicely put. I don't think you have to qualify your views though, there are no "sides" (just a couple of folks tossing gasoline on the fire) The problems with what we've been addressing DO exist. I think that the guys in Ian's band do have to distinguish themselves in their own way, a pretty heavy job considering what that they are being judged on what and who came before them. I think Ian's decision to not do much other Tull material (aside from one monster Tull song hahaha) on this tour is a good one. Do TAAB 2, get comfortable playing their "own" stuff. Grow on it. Florian comes from a flamenco style of playing and then asked to become a rock guy, he has some chops to develop aside from learning Martin's lines. When Divinities came out out I thought hmmmmm could be boring as all get out. Then I went to see the show. A folk violinist (I don't remember his name) Doane on electronic drums Andy on synths and Jon Noyce. A strange recipe. With the solo bits and little jams they did between the songs it took on a great character, very prog. (Doane and Noyce did a great piece, yes Noyce!! I know..) Something I hadn't seen from Ian since APP. I'm not comparing the two, just the impression I had that I'd seen something completely out of the ordinary and entertaining. After that they unfortunately did the first version of "Aquadiddly" ... almost ruined the whole show. ;-) Point being that given half a chance (by Ian) this new band could do cool things. Ian just needs to loosen his grip is all and let them stretch there own legs a bit. I heard one recording of the solo in Banker Bets by Florian that actually smoked (Im sure it varies from night to night) so he has it in him. Doing cover material can be a real trap for a musician, it's hard to get out from under and shine. Darin 4 and a half cents and 2 stars Cody Agreed, Darin. From the recordings I've heard if the band playing live they are playing circles around what they did in the studio. Naturally the band will develops and get more into a "groove" with time. I think they are doing really good--putting on a hell of a live show.
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Nags
Claghornist
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Post by Nags on Jun 28, 2012 17:28:19 GMT -5
Quizz is not the one to mess with in this area, Nags. Why, will he send Martin to lie to me? ;D
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Nags
Claghornist
Posts: 30
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Post by Nags on Jun 28, 2012 17:30:22 GMT -5
It is that inconsistency and dishonesty I have an issue with, just you all seem to have the same issue with things Ian does. ; the other an also ran guitarist - who instead of saying things that undermine his legacey, should shut up and play his guitar. Over, out, good bye! Come on Naggie lets hear your Guitar playing It must be far superior to an also ran average player like Martin eh!! Ooh - I guess you told me Brickhouse. PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 21:07:44 GMT -5
I think What Martin said is just fine. He vented about someone he worked with for fourty years. Any of us would have a little bit of shit to say after working with someone for that long. He was a good sport about it too, for the most part.
Nags, you vented a lot about Martin and that got a few people upset, harsh words welcome harsh words. So let's stop with all of that before we're lowered to personal attacks.
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Nags
Claghornist
Posts: 30
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Post by Nags on Jun 28, 2012 21:52:46 GMT -5
Kai - none of it is meant to be personal, even the Martin stuff, I do feel if he were saying and doing what he is and he were a politician people would support my view. But as for personal, not meant that way, and I take no offence, not even what Brickhouse says.
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Post by TM on Jun 28, 2012 22:07:27 GMT -5
Steve Smith: Reunited Jacksons tour; the end of Jethro Tull; and Ray Davies of the Kinks does West Coast tourGuitarist Martin Barre on the end of Jethro Tull
Martin Barre, former guitarist for British rock-folk-blues -prog rock band Jethro Tull, tells industry publication Goldmine that it was group leader, singer-flutist-guitarist Ian Anderson, who broke up the band he co-founded in 1967 and that Barre joined in the first months of 1969. "Ian just got Doane (Perry, Tull's drummer since 1984) and I in a room and said he didn't want to play in Jethro Tull anymore." Anderson apparently had been planning to record a sequel to his 1971 Jethro Tull concept album, "Thick as a Brick," but he didn't want the rest of the band to play on it. "When Ian announced on the American tour last year that he didn't want to do any more Jethro Tull shows, Doane and I had no idea that he was planning to do `Thick as a Brick 2." Anderson recorded TAAB2 with the members of his solo touring band between March and November last year. The album was released to considerable acclaim in April. Anderson is spending the summer touring Europe and Israel with his band, performing both "Brick" albums. Then, he'll bring that show to America from Sept. 18 through Nov. 5, including concerts on Oct. 17 at the Balboa Theatre in San Diego, Oct. 19 at the Agua Caliente Casino in Rancho Mirage, and Oct. 20 at the Long Beach Terrace Theatre. Barre spent June touring the UK and Europe as a member of The Legends of Rock with Fleetwood Mac drummer Mick Fleetwood and a surprising member, former Mac guitarist Jeremy Spencer; Asia singer-bassist John Wetton; former Yes singer Jon Anderson; and members of Supertramp and Barclay James Harvest. He says there's talk of bringing the tour to Canada in January, and if so, he sees no reason why they won't tour the States. He also leads a band that plays nothing but the music of Jethro Tull called Martin Barre's New Day. Former Tull bassist Jonathan Noyce is a member. This band plays the loud rocking Tull songs Anderson deleted from Tull's set lists for years, often for decades. "I've also spoken to other guys, like (former Tull drummer) Barrie Barlow on the possibility of putting together a Jethro Tull band for America, which would have some interesting people in it, like maybe (original Tull drummer) Clive Bunker. I quite fancy the idea of having the lineup of Jethro Tull from a long time ago performing again. It would be hard to get some guys, I know. John Evan (Tull's pianist during the `70s) lives in Australia. It wouldn't be an easy task, but it would be good fun trying." www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_20965526/steve-smith-reunited-jacksons-tour-end-jethro-tull
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Nags
Claghornist
Posts: 30
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Post by Nags on Jun 29, 2012 8:50:09 GMT -5
My two cents not that it matters I never thought I would hear this kind of shall we say disturbing conversation going on about Martin. I have far better things to do than want to participate in all of this bashing. I think I will sit this one out for awhile longer and see if this resolves it self. I have to say without Martin there is no Tull Ian said so in a 1993 interview. So is this now the Ian Anderson board or the Jethro Tull board, because the way this sounds is that there can not be both. Sad to say I will take a break from all of this,I have met a lot a great folks here, I will still drop by from time to time. I understand your frustration Charlie. For some reason some feel the need to take sides and as well as shots. There is simply no reason to try diminish Martin Barre's role as a member of Jethro Tull. If someone likes Florian's style better than Martin that is fine. But that doesn't change the fact, as Ian stated, without Martin there is no Jethro Tull. We all know Ian is the driving force behind the band, but Martin is the one that made them a rock & roll band. The last big album for Jethro Tull was Crest Of A Knave. And the focus of that album was on Martin's guitar playing. Funny thing is, it even won them a Grammy. The Grammy, really, that's the best shot? Please tell me where to send donations to help that cause.
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Post by TM on Jun 29, 2012 9:41:48 GMT -5
I understand your frustration Charlie. For some reason some feel the need to take sides and as well as shots. There is simply no reason to try diminish Martin Barre's role as a member of Jethro Tull. If someone likes Florian's style better than Martin that is fine. But that doesn't change the fact, as Ian stated, without Martin there is no Jethro Tull. We all know Ian is the driving force behind the band, but Martin is the one that made them a rock & roll band. The last big album for Jethro Tull was Crest Of A Knave. And the focus of that album was on Martin's guitar playing. Funny thing is, it even won them a Grammy. The Grammy, really, that's the best shot? Please tell me where to send donations to help that cause. Dude, I'm not digging your attitude. This is not the original Tull board where people can act like assholes and remain a member. Just know that I wont hesitate to pull the plug on your ass if you keep it up. Think of this as your last friendly warning.
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Nags
Claghornist
Posts: 30
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Post by Nags on Jun 29, 2012 10:00:30 GMT -5
The Grammy, really, that's the best shot? Please tell me where to send donations to help that cause. Dude, I'm not digging your attitude. This is not the original Tull board where people can act like assholes and remain a member. Just know that I wont hesitate to pull the plug on your ass if you keep it up. Think of this as your last friendly warning. So if I disagree with a view, defend my view, an unpopular view, then I am gone. All the while others fling much worse attitudes about other members, Ian, and others that's cool; but point out the hypocrisy of Martin, and his apologists and that is cause for dismissal? You can dog me, but I can’t reciprocate? That almost puts you in the Ian camp, sound a lot like what he is accused of doing to poor Martin and all those hard done former members, crying their way to the bank. Tell me how am I being an asshole by challenging you. There so many other things I can think of that you can do to my ass.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 10:08:01 GMT -5
Dude, I'm not digging your attitude. This is not the original Tull board where people can act like assholes and remain a member. Just know that I wont hesitate to pull the plug on your ass if you keep it up. Think of this as your last friendly warning. So if I disagree with a view, defend my view, an unpopular view, then I am gone. All the while others fling much worse attitudes about other members, Ian, and others that's cool; but point out the hypocrisy of Martin, and his apologists and that is cause for dismissal? You can dog me, but I can’t reciprocate? That almost puts you in the Ian camp, sound a lot like what he is accused of doing to poor Martin and all those hard done former members, crying their way to the bank. Tell me how am I being an asshole by challenging you. There so many other things I can think of that you can do to my ass. you were given several friendly warnings to tone it down, you didn't. You were told you can express your view but less of the abuse, you turned it into a broken record. Your MO is designed to piss people off. We are far from arse lickers for any band member, and respect and welcome honest critiques, but not only do you ignore friendly advice, it also seems you can't read your PM's. You were told this morning the protocols for posting here, and you've deliberately ignored them. Banning someone is not something that we take lightly, as some do in other arenas, but sorry to say pal, you're out. To quote an earlier post of yours "good-bye'.
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Post by housebrick on Jun 29, 2012 10:28:21 GMT -5
At last some good news !!
Heres a nice little song for Nags then
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Post by TM on Jun 29, 2012 10:32:51 GMT -5
I'm going to miss him. Had I known he was so into his bum I may have felt different about him. As we do any time each time a troll is defeated. We must celebrate. ;D
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 11:02:16 GMT -5
Yeah, besides his original post about Martin, which was relevant even though we disagreed, that guy made no relevant arguments. It felt like being in middle school again. "oooh I guess you told me" what a twat.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 11:54:57 GMT -5
I reckon it was Tony Iommi, still hacked off over Martin getting the gig.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 12:22:49 GMT -5
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Post by TM on Jun 29, 2012 13:35:34 GMT -5
I reckon it was Tony Iommi, still hacked off over Martin getting the gig.
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Post by TM on Jun 29, 2012 13:38:44 GMT -5
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Post by TM on Jun 29, 2012 13:43:36 GMT -5
THINGS NOT TO SAY WHEN REFERRING TO YOUR DONKEY #1There so many other things I can think of that you can do to my ass.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 14:00:57 GMT -5
All Asses must be shown!!
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Post by TM on Jun 29, 2012 15:40:58 GMT -5
All Asses must be shown!! I was a little taken aback at first when those two seemed intent on following the early guidelines.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 18:00:49 GMT -5
All Asses must be shown!! I was a little taken aback at first when those two seemed intent on following the early guidelines. I should have explained they were intent on taking their girlfriends to a nudist camp, which they mistook for this place
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