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Post by Nonfatman on Jul 24, 2012 19:56:51 GMT -5
While we are still on this subject, I should also add that Ian's rude, abusive bullying of the fan -- who by all available evidence (i.e., Janu's testimony and the clip itself) was innocent of any loud or boorish conduct -- was not only unjustified, it was also ill-advised and foolish.
How did he know who he was dealing with? We New Yorkers know that you don't start with people, because you can't predict what they might do. Who's to say the guy was not some nut like the Aurora Colorado guy, for instance?
One time, and I'll never forget this, I was on a subway, about 15 years ago, and this guy walks between two subway cars, from one car to the next and continuing to walk; a black guy who looked like he could be an ex-convict, and he's smoking a cigarette. A snotty woman rebukes him, reciting that it's illegal to smoke on the subway. The guy turned to her and went off like you wouldn't believe, in a very threatening way, and I thought he might pull a knife or attack her. She turned white as a ghost, and fortunately, the raving lunatic walked off without doing anything after he completed his expletive-filled tirade. She learned a lesson that day; keep your mouth shut.
So the next time Ian is tempted to fuck with someone at a rock show, he should really think twice about his own safety.
Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 21:00:36 GMT -5
While we are still on this subject, I should also add that Ian's rude, abusive bullying of the fan -- who by all available evidence (i.e., Janu's testimony and the clip itself) was innocent of any loud or boorish conduct -- was not only unjustified, it was also ill-advised and foolish. How did he know who he was dealing with? We New Yorkers know that you don't start with people, because you can't predict what they might do. Who's to say the guy was not some nut like the Aurora Colorado guy, for instance? One time, and I'll never forget this, I was on a subway, about 15 years ago, and this guy walks between two subway cars, from one car to the next and continuing to walk; a black guy who looked like he could be an ex-convict, and he's smoking a cigarette. A snotty woman rebukes him, reciting that it's illegal to smoke on the subway. The guy turned to her and went off like you wouldn't believe, in a very threatening way, and I thought he might pull a knife or attack her. She turned white as a ghost, and fortunately, the raving lunatic walked off without doing anything after he completed his expletive-filled tirade. She learned a lesson that day; keep your mouth shut. So the next time Ian is tempted to fuck with someone at a rock show, he should really think twice about his own safety. Jeff Hi Jeff nice to see you back. Well to go the other way with it, they could've been high ranking Spanish offficial or their kids....or could've been a disgruntled and deranged Martin Barre fan!!! Big trouble!! Darin
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 24, 2012 21:21:51 GMT -5
Yes this is a disturbing video. I suppose we all have opinions that are valid. As with many things, it seems very simple. Serge did not hear what was happening other than Ian through the microphone. Before we jump to conclusions, we should give Ian some benefit of doubt.
I've never been to a show where Ian or anyone has disrupted a Tull concert.
Maybe Ian has been an asshole at times. Perhaps he was this time too. I'm not going to pile on because I feel betrayed about some former member not on this tour. We all need to take a deep breath and give Ian some measure of innocent until proven guilty.
Life is only simple to simple minded people. They see everything in Black and White. Not me.
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Post by TM on Jul 24, 2012 22:02:43 GMT -5
Yes this is a disturbing video. I suppose we all have opinions that are valid. As with many things, it seems very simple. Serge did not hear what was happening other than Ian through the microphone. Before we jump to conclusions, we should give Ian some benefit of doubt.
I've never been to a show where Ian or anyone has disrupted a Tull concert.
Maybe Ian has been an asshole at times. Perhaps he was this time too. I'm not going to pile on because I feel betrayed about some former member not on this tour. We all need to take a deep breath and give Ian some measure of innocent until proven guilty.
Life is only simple to simple minded people. They see everything in Black and White. Not me. Oh yes, you are the most open minded person politically that I've ever met. lol. ;D
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Post by Nonfatman on Jul 24, 2012 23:41:05 GMT -5
Yes this is a disturbing video. I suppose we all have opinions that are valid. As with many things, it seems very simple. Serge did not hear what was happening other than Ian through the microphone. Before we jump to conclusions, we should give Ian some benefit of doubt.
I've never been to a show where Ian or anyone has disrupted a Tull concert.
Maybe Ian has been an asshole at times. Perhaps he was this time too. I'm not going to pile on because I feel betrayed about some former member not on this tour. We all need to take a deep breath and give Ian some measure of innocent until proven guilty.
Life is only simple to simple minded people. They see everything in Black and White. Not me. Jim, you bastard, you just called me simple minded, didn't you? Jeff
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 25, 2012 6:17:46 GMT -5
Yes this is a disturbing video. I suppose we all have opinions that are valid. As with many things, it seems very simple. Serge did not hear what was happening other than Ian through the microphone. Before we jump to conclusions, we should give Ian some benefit of doubt.
I've never been to a show where Ian or anyone has disrupted a Tull concert.
Maybe Ian has been an asshole at times. Perhaps he was this time too. I'm not going to pile on because I feel betrayed about some former member not on this tour. We all need to take a deep breath and give Ian some measure of innocent until proven guilty.
Life is only simple to simple minded people. They see everything in Black and White. Not me. Jim, you bastard, you just called me simple minded, didn't you? Jeff The only name in the quote you have used is Ian. Perhaps Ian is being simple minded? There are those who would rush to judgement over a 38 second video without all the facts. I cannot condone Ian's comments. However I cannot see him or the individual he is yelling at either. Those are the Facts. Perhaps you can find a better clip on you tube to draw a conclusion?
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 25, 2012 6:31:12 GMT -5
Oh yes, you are the most open minded person politically that I've ever met. lol. ;D Paul that would be a great idea for us to meet sometime. I have friends that are very close to your political way of thinking. ;D My main point on this non-political topic is that a short video clip is not proof of anything. Ian may or may not have overreacted but we cannot judge without more evidence. Even Serge could not see everything that transpired before the incident. I'm sure you are not able to see everything that happens at a concert either.
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Post by Icy Lucifer on Jul 25, 2012 6:45:46 GMT -5
Hermione says... "Chill out guys! Things could be worse. Look at me last night!" icyL sends his best regards.
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 25, 2012 6:51:39 GMT -5
Hermione says... "Chill out guys! Things could be worse. Look at me last night!" icyL sends his best regards. Well Done Hermione!We all have moments of indiscretion in public from time to time. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 8:24:49 GMT -5
There are those who would rush to judgement over a 38 second video without all the facts. I suppose I rushed to make a judgement as my immediate reaction was to think, well maybe the person deserved it, then I made a jokey remark, then I listened to the clip several more time as people posted and then I made another judgement, not solely based on the clip, I also made it on the very clear assertions that Ian has made over several years and interviews about his fans. Quite frankly there have been times when I am surprised that more fans haven't taken it leterally and gone and fucked off. Maybe they have and that's why the record sales and audience numbers have dwindled over the years. Remember it's only the giving that makes you what you are...I suppose it depends on what your actually giving that makes the real difference
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 8:26:34 GMT -5
Oddly, that seems so much more stylish than the drunk girl I saw doing it in Bexleyheath a few years ago, it must be the visits to the wine dept at Clutterbury's Waitrose that does it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 8:35:47 GMT -5
There are those who would rush to judgement over a 38 second video without all the facts. Very true... at this rate Ian will loose more old fans than gain new ones . I am an old fan and spent countless hours collecting and going to shows. Like I said in my earlier post Ian is a gifted musician and such. How ever I can only take so many FUCK OFF's in the printed media, and at shows. Like Quizz said maybe that is why there has been such a drop off in sales. I think Ian expects everybody to drink the KOOL AID
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Post by Nonfatman on Jul 25, 2012 8:40:25 GMT -5
Jim, you bastard, you just called me simple minded, didn't you? Jeff The only name in the quote you have used is Ian. Perhaps Ian is being simple minded? There are those who would rush to judgement over a 38 second video without all the facts. I cannot condone Ian's comments. However I cannot see him or the individual he is yelling at either. Those are the Facts. Perhaps you can find a better clip on you tube to draw a conclusion?Jim, I was joking, of course -- you know that bastard is a term of affection on the board -- but let's assume for the sake of argument that the fan was talking and it was bothering Ian. Clearly the fan was not yet yelling, hooting or hollering, because Janu, who was sitting right up front, would have heard that, and it would have also been heard on the clip. Janu says the audience was respectful, non-disruptive and quiet as a mouse, and the tape confirms that, but let's suppose that Ian noticed or heard this fan talking in a normal voice to a friend. Ian was annoyed, okay, and felt the need to stop mid-song to reprimand the fan, which was unnecessary in my view, and could have been handled otherwise. But, still, did he have to be so vulgar and abusive? Couldn't he have been polite about it and said something like "Excuse me, Sir, but could you please not talk during the quiet sections, I would really appreciate that" or something similar? Ian apparently believes his shows are like a religious service, everyone has to be absolutely silent. That is unrealistic. It's a rock show, people are giddy and excited, and a certain amount of talking is to be expected. Jeff
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 25, 2012 9:13:54 GMT -5
There are those who would rush to judgement over a 38 second video without all the facts. Remember it's only the giving that makes you what you are ...I suppose it depends on what your actually giving that makes the real difference You are absolutely right. I understand that previous incidents may have influenced your reaction. I repeat : "I do not condone Ian's comments"
My main concern is that we cannot see or know what really happened in this case. If Ian wishes to add his point on this matter, that would be welcome to hear.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 9:25:31 GMT -5
I am sure Ian would spin it his way
.... he always does..
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 25, 2012 9:31:48 GMT -5
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 25, 2012 9:48:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 9:53:39 GMT -5
Remember it's only the giving that makes you what you are ...I suppose it depends on what your actually giving that makes the real difference You are absolutely right. I understand that previous incidents may have influenced your reaction. I repeat : "I do not condone Ian's comments"
My main concern is that we cannot see or know what really happened in this case. If Ian wishes to add his point on this matter, that would be welcome to hear.
Jim, even if Ian was kind enough to make reference to this and clear it up, surely the matter is one of perception. Given his previous comments about American fans, the differences between Tull and Anderson fans [is there really one?] and those who sought to have an opinion on 'the strange case of the disappearing Martin Barre in the night', the perception amongst some is that Ian has lost some of the plot along with a fine guitarist. perception is a difficult beast to manage, once it has taken hold. Not only is it sometimes foolish to bite the hand that feeds you [and your's] but its also perceived by some, including me, to be eqiually bad mannered to respond in that way. Whats the difference to screaming out from Row Z for Aqualung to publicly bawling out someone for the same from the stage. I have immense respect for Ian and in someway respect him for making a stand against modern gig mentalities that do spoil it for many, for me Ian stood out amoungst the normal dross of rock and roll 'star' by being iintelligent, witty and erudite...this was like a scene from the lengthy but very worthwhile circus clown joke, where, after being belittled by a clown a young lad goes through years of training in witty repartee to become a master of his craft so that one day he can stand his ground against the circus clown who made a fool of him, on being invited back to the stage he stands up and screams 'Fuck off you big red nosed c***'
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Post by Burgess on Jul 25, 2012 10:01:43 GMT -5
To be fair I can hear a lot of Audience chatter on that clip. I know from experience its not nice to be ignored when you are performing and the intro to Change Of Horses is atmospheric, its a building thing and requires attention. I can see why it would have frustrated Ian. On the other hand his outburst wasn't professional and had I been there it would have ruined the show and that's not fair on the fans. But you gotta cut Ian some slack, he's human and he has 100x more energy than I have and I'm 28 years younger! I don't know how he does all this touring, its bloody hard work. I'm surprised he doesn't blow his top more often There is talk of this tour going into 2013. I think its too much and I worry about the stress Ian must be under. Maybe if the tour came to a close by September and he took some time off to write and record again, he seemed really happy recording this new album and all the pre-tour publicity.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 10:12:30 GMT -5
Paul
Welcome to the board, you've joined whilst there is quite a heated debate going on, thanks for your balanced input putting both sides of the argument, I know I couldn't do Ian's job without ocassionally losing it at my age, let alone adding the extra 9 years he carries over me, and I'm sure as you say people a lot younger would have less energy and patience than he displays.
Just a pity that it seemed to come out of nowhere, but who knows what went before it.
By chance you wouldn't be the Paul Burgess who graced the Tull drumstool for awhile would you?
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Post by Burgess on Jul 25, 2012 10:22:10 GMT -5
By chance you wouldn't be the paul burgess who graced the Tull drumstool for awhile would you? No but I knew it would cause confusion. I wasn't going to use my real name but what the hell........its not my fault that my favorite band once had a drummer who shares my name. I do sometimes wonder about that coincidence.....
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Post by TM on Jul 25, 2012 10:23:52 GMT -5
Oh yes, you are the most open minded person politically that I've ever met. lol. ;D Paul that would be a great idea for us to meet sometime. I have friends that are very close to your political way of thinking. ;D My main point on this non-political topic is that a short video clip is not proof of anything. Ian may or may not have overreacted but we cannot judge without more evidence. Even Serge could not see everything that transpired before the incident. I'm sure you are not able to see everything that happens at a concert either.Jim, you have to admit that one could find humor in hearing you state that some people only see things in black and white but not you, while you always toe the line. You're gray area ranges from extreme liberalism to radical liberalism.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 10:29:32 GMT -5
By chance you wouldn't be the paul burgess who graced the Tull drumstool for awhile would you? No but I knew it would cause confusion. I wasn't going to use my real name but what the hell........its not my fault that my favorite band once had a drummer who shares my name. I do sometimes wonder about that coincidence..... Lucky we cleared that up at the start otherwise we would be signing you up for a Q&A and course of drum clinics. Welcome aboard, hope you enjoy it here, we're a rowdy but goodly bunch of folk who, believe it or not, like our Tull
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2012 10:32:44 GMT -5
...Not the kind of KOOL AID I am talking aboutmaybe if I had a few dozen I might be able to stomach Ian's comment better
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Post by jtul07 on Jul 25, 2012 10:39:56 GMT -5
You're gray area ranges from extreme liberalism to radical liberalism. I relative terms I may appear to be all of those things. However, the term 'Simple Minded' could apply to Ian as well. I was opening up the possibility that his actions were not the best. But if rushing to judgement on a 38 second video fits the description, that too could be 'Simple Minded'. How is Liberalism involved in this?
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