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Post by Geoff CB on Jul 8, 2014 10:23:45 GMT -5
I heard a few differences, but I will have to revisit. And Prompter, it's worth investing in even a basic surround to listen to this, as EVERYTHING has more room!
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Post by Morthoron on Jul 8, 2014 11:46:05 GMT -5
Figures. The only time Amazon is slow shipping is when I really want to hear something. I have the day off, and do you think my APP copy is here? Fuck no! You're going to love this Greg. Good shit. And PS - the APP disc is fine. Must have been my iTunes software. You are absolutely right, Paul, I do love this. The 5.1 mix is fabulous and, dare I say, I prefer many of the aspects of the Chateaux recordings over APP. In particular, Critique Oblique I and II has a much harder edge akin to Aqualung than the APP version. In addition, I prefer the acoustic intro. I could live without the flute or sax, and I much rather listen to Ian's acoustic tracks. And isn't it funny that, long before I even knew of a Chateau D'isaster, I always included "Skating Away" on my cassette recordings of APP because, subliminally, I felt it somehow belonged there. |
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Post by TM on Jul 8, 2014 21:20:19 GMT -5
You're going to love this Greg. Good shit. And PS - the APP disc is fine. Must have been my iTunes software. You are absolutely right, Paul, I do love this. The 5.1 mix is fabulous and, dare I say, I prefer many of the aspects of the Chateaux recordings over APP. In particular, Critique Oblique I and II has a much harder edge akin to Aqualung than the APP version. In addition, I prefer the acoustic intro. I could live without the flute or sax, and I much rather listen to Ian's acoustic tracks. And isn't it funny that, long before I even knew of a Chateau D'isaster, I always included "Skating Away" on my cassette recordings of APP because, subliminally, I felt it somehow belonged there. I agree Greg. The Chateaux sessions seem to trump APP here but I have yet to listen to either on anything decent at this point. |
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GuyM
One of the Youngest of the Family
New DAMANEK album ON TRACK is now out!
Posts: 50
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Post by GuyM on Jul 10, 2014 4:17:03 GMT -5
Chateau - Very interesting musically (and all the later overdubbed flute parts are now gone) but visually a bit disappointing - They repeat the same 21 photos over and over...would have been nice to get a few more shots or maybe the lyrics for each song?
Also on the APP disc it would have been a very nice touch to sync up the ballerina footage at the opening with the start of the disc (as it was done live) - shame, another missed opportunity there I think...
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Post by Morthoron on Jul 10, 2014 23:02:06 GMT -5
Here's an observation for you: in listening to the acoustic guitar and vocals of the stripped down Scenario/Audition, I was struck how much Ian sounded like Stormcock-era Roy Harper, and I don't think it is coincidental. I recall Ian speaking very highly of Harper in ages past.
Don't believe me? If you've never heard Stormcock, give it a listen, as I highly recommend it. Ian seems to have borrowed the inflections, vibrato and guitar phrasings from that album.
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Prompter
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
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Post by Prompter on Jul 11, 2014 1:46:20 GMT -5
Ian's guitar style has always reminded me of Roy Harper's a bit, actually. As for the singing, an interesting observation, I have Stormcock and, now that you've mentioned it, can spot the similarities, even in some of the vocal melodies (there's a little bit in Me and My Woman that sounds quite like that one little bit from Scenario :-P ). Nice.  |
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Eka
Claghornist
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Post by Eka on Jul 11, 2014 12:38:42 GMT -5
Why i have a feeling that flute on Skating Away is re-recorded these days? Doesn't sound like Ian's style in 1972./'73. Also guitar seems deleted, or added for Warchild / Nightcup.
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Post by Mix on Jul 11, 2014 14:08:41 GMT -5
Ian was heavily influenced by Roy Harper, their Guitar styles are very similar.
I finally got a listen last night. A Passion Play sounds wonderful. It really shows off what a great band they really were.
John's keyboard work is astonishing. Some great Acoustic Guitar from Ian too and that Sax! Man I love it, its such a great sound. Give me more Sax Ian!
What's really disturbing is listening to the remixes and then going to the old mixes is like chalk and cheese. I had a quick listen to Storm Watch after (thinking I wanted to hear the band's last album) and it sounds awful, yet I had always thought Storm Watch was great.
Its convinced me that the entire catalog needs the SW treatment. That Bass Guitar sound on Storm Watch is fucking awful.
Anyway, back to APP. The new Foot of the stairs verse I'm not so sure about. I can see why they left it off to start with. I think it was wrong to reverse that, interesting to hear but I'm so used to that wonderful instrumental section coming in at that point, it really makes the song. Now you have to wait and it just strings it out whereas before it was perfect.
The good news is apparently SW is now working on War Child so its looking like the intention is there to keep going. But at this rate we'll have to wait 6 years to get to Storm Watch.
It just amazes me how great the 70's band were. We all knew it but the remixes have given me a even deeper understanding of their amazing work.
Jeff, get it. You need this in your life!
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Post by Michael Crowe on Jul 12, 2014 0:02:09 GMT -5
Ian was heavily influenced by Roy Harper, their Guitar styles are very similar. I finally got a listen last night. A Passion Play sounds wonderful. It really shows off what a great band they really were. John's keyboard work is astonishing. Some great Acoustic Guitar from Ian too and that Sax! Man I love it, its such a great sound. Give me more Sax Ian! What's really disturbing is listening to the remixes and then going to the old mixes is like chalk and cheese. I had a quick listen to Storm Watch after (thinking I wanted to hear the band's last album) and it sounds awful, yet I had always thought Storm Watch was great. Its convinced me that the entire catalog needs the SW treatment. That Bass Guitar sound on Storm Watch is fucking awful. Anyway, back to APP. The new Foot of the stairs verse I'm not so sure about. I can see why they left it off to start with. I think it was wrong to reverse that, interesting to hear but I'm so used to that wonderful instrumental section coming in at that point, it really makes the song. Now you have to wait and it just strings it out whereas before it was perfect. The good news is apparently SW is now working on War Child so its looking like the intention is there to keep going. But at this rate we'll have to wait 6 years to get to Storm Watch. It just amazes me how great the 70's band were. We all knew it but the remixes have given me a even deeper understanding of their amazing work. Jeff, get it. You need this in your life! Always liked the original mixes of TAAB, APP, and Minstrel, well einough, not so much Warchild and certainly not Aqualung, but basically the heyday albums are okay. I'm waiting and hoping for a SW remix of the folk era trilogy of the late 70s. You're right, that Stormwatch bass is the pits, and the whole album just sounds plastic. SFTW, while okay, is a bit dull and narrow production wise by comparison to today's mixes, HH probably the best of the three sound wise but still a bit bland, and Stormwatch has always sounded like an expensive demo. To me that era had the best lineup, and it represented another facet of the diamond whilst still in the prime years. |
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Post by Morthoron on Jul 13, 2014 22:36:37 GMT -5
Speaking of facets to the diamond, look at APP in context to 1972-73. Tull released TAAB and APP in that 2 year span, Yes had Close to the Edge and Tales from Topographic Oceans, Genesis came out with Foxtrot and Selling England by the Pound, Floyd had Dark Side of the Moon, ELP released Brain Salad Surgery, and King Crimson had Larks Tongue in Aspic.
Brilliant albums. Sublime music. The very height of what we later referred to as the "Progressive Era". But in that very brilliance lay the seeds of destruction. These bands had become so accomplished and had so transcended the basic 12-bar blues scale rock was built on that they had literally outplayed the genre and the ears of the record buying public. As the emperor commented to Mozart in Amadeus, "there are simply too many notes".
Each of these bands had continuing success, some more, some less, afterwards, but 1973 was when prog reached its critical mass, and sooner than later each of the bands stripped down their compositions for the most part: 20 minute magnum opuses became rare and whole album songs disappeared, at least on the Billboard charts, and even double album concepts were segmented into bite-sized bits for easier mass consumption.
So enjoy the APP/Chateau Extended Performance for what it is: a peculiar and eccentric masterpiece that a major band could only have gotten away with in a two year time span, but that the critics failed or refused to understand, and yet the public sent to #1 in the U.S., not knowing it was the last of its kind -- a great woolly mammoth of an album that was extinct upon release.
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Sparty
One of the Youngest of the Family
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Post by Sparty on Jul 14, 2014 9:03:36 GMT -5
Speaking of facets to the diamond, look at APP in context to 1972-73. Tull released TAAB and APP in that 2 year span, Yes had Close to the Edge and Tales from Topographic Oceans, Genesis came out with Foxtrot and Selling England by the Pound, Floyd had Dark Side of the Moon, ELP released Brain Salad Surgery, and King Crimson had Larks Tongue in Aspic. Brilliant albums. Sublime music. The very height of what we later referred to as the "Progressive Era". But in that very brilliance lay the seeds of destruction. These bands had become so accomplished and had so transcended the basic 12-bar blues scale rock was built on that they had literally outplayed the genre and the ears of the record buying public. As the emperor commented to Mozart in Amadeus, "there are simply too many notes". Each of these bands had continuing success, some more, some less, afterwards, but 1973 was when prog reached its critical mass, and sooner than later each of the bands stripped down their compositions for the most part: 20 minute magnum opuses became rare and whole album songs disappeared, at least on the Billboard charts, and even double album concepts were segmented into bite-sized bits for easier mass consumption. So enjoy the APP/Chateau Extended Performance for what it is: a peculiar and eccentric masterpiece that a major band could only have gotten away with in a two year time span, but that the critics failed or refused to understand, and yet the public sent to #1 in the U.S., not knowing it was the last of its kind -- a great woolly mammoth of an album that was extinct upon release. Brilliant! One of my favorite posts, ever, on this site. |
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Post by Mix on Jul 17, 2014 8:14:40 GMT -5
Ian was heavily influenced by Roy Harper, their Guitar styles are very similar. I finally got a listen last night. A Passion Play sounds wonderful. It really shows off what a great band they really were. John's keyboard work is astonishing. Some great Acoustic Guitar from Ian too and that Sax! Man I love it, its such a great sound. Give me more Sax Ian! What's really disturbing is listening to the remixes and then going to the old mixes is like chalk and cheese. I had a quick listen to Storm Watch after (thinking I wanted to hear the band's last album) and it sounds awful, yet I had always thought Storm Watch was great. Its convinced me that the entire catalog needs the SW treatment. That Bass Guitar sound on Storm Watch is fucking awful. Anyway, back to APP. The new Foot of the stairs verse I'm not so sure about. I can see why they left it off to start with. I think it was wrong to reverse that, interesting to hear but I'm so used to that wonderful instrumental section coming in at that point, it really makes the song. Now you have to wait and it just strings it out whereas before it was perfect. The good news is apparently SW is now working on War Child so its looking like the intention is there to keep going. But at this rate we'll have to wait 6 years to get to Storm Watch. It just amazes me how great the 70's band were. We all knew it but the remixes have given me a even deeper understanding of their amazing work. Jeff, get it. You need this in your life! Stormwatch has always sounded like an expensive demo. It is quite a contrast going from say APP to SW. While SW does contain some great playing from all the guys in the band its not sounding like a group effort, more very Ian led. The band was about to implode and with the loss of John Glasscock (was he ill or had he passed when they recorded?) must have left a huge hole. BTW, my CD is lost in a box somewhere. I seem to recall John did play Bass on some tracks, can anyone remember which? |
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Post by TM on Jul 17, 2014 9:15:07 GMT -5
John was too ill to finish the recording of Stormwatch. He's credited for playing on Orion, Flying Dutchman, and Elegy, or as Barrie suggested - the songs which don't have the bass mixed too high. |
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Post by giveguybrushgrog on Jul 18, 2014 0:23:35 GMT -5
i dont have very strong opinions on the passion play remix. ive been listening to a mfsl version for the past couple of months in anticipation. a passion play is, imo, possibly the best sounding tull mix so this had a lot to live up to. it certainly lives up to it. is it 'better'? it probably is in multiple senses. its overall not as full sounding as id have liked it to be. theres reverb in the original id have liked left, i was particularly unhappy with the DUN DUN DUN on with a howl across the sand. my qualms are small. focus on any given instrument and it probably sounds superior than the original. i thought the addition to foot of our stairs sounded sick. as much as i loved the original im not sure i could ever listen to anything but the expanded version again.
no, i was far more excited about the chateau remix. i have nitpicks about a number of things on the benefit remix, but what was a top notch example of what steve wilson can do was the song 17. as much as i love chateau it sounds horrible, and ive actually had passengers who enjoy tull complain about it grating on their ears. i had a feeling there was a great deal steve wilson could do with it. im less than half way into my first listen and im pretty floored, my expectations exceeded and then some. night and day is a good analogy but we need and enjoy both. this is better, far superior, in every aspect. i dont even miss the missing flute especially since it sounded kind of out of place to begin with, but to stress, its just not missing or needed in this mix. its also phenomenal in its entire presentation, it has far more of the feel of a finished album.
im only now to left right, probably my most anticipated listen and its just nuts how much better this thing sounds. ill be listening to the chateau remix for some time im thinking.
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Pieter
One of the Youngest of the Family
Give us direction, the best of goodwill
Posts: 84
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Post by Pieter on Jul 27, 2014 4:32:58 GMT -5
Ian's guitar style has always reminded me of Roy Harper's a bit, actually. As for the singing, an interesting observation, I have Stormcock and, now that you've mentioned it, can spot the similarities, even in some of the vocal melodies (there's a little bit in Me and My Woman that sounds quite like that one little bit from Scenario :-P ). Nice. Wow, I never heard Stormcock, it took me a while to get it. I agree, it's a lot like Ians acoustic guitar playing, the style I've love ever since I first heard "life's a long song". Thanks for helping me find some new-old music! |
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GuyM
One of the Youngest of the Family
New DAMANEK album ON TRACK is now out!
Posts: 50
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Post by GuyM on Jul 27, 2014 10:47:32 GMT -5
As an addendum to my earlier comment about "missing a trick" with the visual aspect of the APP/C'Disaster 5.1 discs...compare and contrast with the newly released 5.1 blu-ray of Gentle Giant's "The Power & the Glory".....!!
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Post by Nonfatman on Jul 29, 2014 15:27:16 GMT -5
Is it worth it, for the few extra lines and snippets of remixed music, the enhanced sound, and the booklet, to spend $40 on this release? I don't usually care for remixes, and I already own Nightcap and the 2003 remastered edition of APP, which is an enhanced CD including the APP film. In other words, what is really new, and do the new or added items justify the expense? I've not heard it yet Jeff, but apparently there's about ten minutes more of the Chateau stuff which includes the unreleased 'Sailor'. SW also stripped out the Flute overdubs Ian did in the late 80's early 90's. I kinda like those Flute parts but I can see why he wanted to do it. You'll get a sense of it being exactly as it was left when they abandoned it. SW also took out all the 80's/90's digital reverbs. APP has a missing section restored that they discovered was left off the original. I didn't go for the remasters, didn't see the point. But the SW remixes are something else. Suddenly you can hear stuff in a new way. I think anyone passionate about the Tull catalog as we all are isn't going to want to miss the SW remixes. The guy has magic ears. The question is what will be next? We've heard no conformation that SW will do anything else though I heard a rumour he wanted to do SFTW which would be great but I really hope the rest of the catalog, especially the 70's albums are done. Minstrel would benefit, TOTRR has always had problems. HH & SW could sound so much better. And I'd love to have later stuff redone. Ian went a bit crazy with the digital reverb from Chrest onwards. Its divisive but has so many gems mixed in there. You should get this one, Jeff. You might discover some moments of pure delight you overlooked first time round. Thanks, I will order it Mix, because it seems like there is enough previously unreleased passages and a full version of Sailor, etc. to make it interesting. I don't own a 5.1 surround sound stereo system, and rarely can even find time to listen to music like I did when I was younger, so I guess I won't be able to appreciate that particular disc. The "new" material does seem worth it though, plus the book, which I will probably skim a couple of times, but am unlikely to ever read the whole thing. Jeff |
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Post by TM on Jul 29, 2014 23:02:18 GMT -5
I've not heard it yet Jeff, but apparently there's about ten minutes more of the Chateau stuff which includes the unreleased 'Sailor'. SW also stripped out the Flute overdubs Ian did in the late 80's early 90's. I kinda like those Flute parts but I can see why he wanted to do it. You'll get a sense of it being exactly as it was left when they abandoned it. SW also took out all the 80's/90's digital reverbs. APP has a missing section restored that they discovered was left off the original. I didn't go for the remasters, didn't see the point. But the SW remixes are something else. Suddenly you can hear stuff in a new way. I think anyone passionate about the Tull catalog as we all are isn't going to want to miss the SW remixes. The guy has magic ears. The question is what will be next? We've heard no conformation that SW will do anything else though I heard a rumour he wanted to do SFTW which would be great but I really hope the rest of the catalog, especially the 70's albums are done. Minstrel would benefit, TOTRR has always had problems. HH & SW could sound so much better. And I'd love to have later stuff redone. Ian went a bit crazy with the digital reverb from Chrest onwards. Its divisive but has so many gems mixed in there. You should get this one, Jeff. You might discover some moments of pure delight you overlooked first time round. Thanks, I will order it Mix, because it seems like there is enough previously unreleased passages and a full version of Sailor, etc. to make it interesting. I don't own a 5.1 surround sound stereo system, and rarely can even find time to listen to music like I did when I was younger, so I guess I won't be able to appreciate that particular disc. The "new" material does seem worth it though, plus the book, which I will probably skim a couple of times, but am unlikely to ever read the whole thing. Jeff While I do like this release and I do have 5.1, I've never used it to listen to it. I just don't have the time or inclination to sit down and devote that kind of attention to music. |
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Post by Nonfatman on Jul 31, 2014 18:44:31 GMT -5
Thanks, I will order it Mix, because it seems like there is enough previously unreleased passages and a full version of Sailor, etc. to make it interesting. I don't own a 5.1 surround sound stereo system, and rarely can even find time to listen to music like I did when I was younger, so I guess I won't be able to appreciate that particular disc. The "new" material does seem worth it though, plus the book, which I will probably skim a couple of times, but am unlikely to ever read the whole thing. Jeff While I do like this release and I do have 5.1, I've never used it to listen to it. I just don't have the time or inclination to sit down and devote that kind of attention to music. I am finding that as I get older I am less of a "fan" of things than I used to be. I still enjoy sports and concerts, but I don't have the time that I used to have when I was younger to devote to these activities, and they no longer seem as important to me. As far as Ian is concerned, I have lost a lot of interest since Tull broke up. Part of it is that I am just not that much of a Florian fan, I'm afraid, and also because I find Ian's vocal difficulties to be depressing, considering how great a singer he once was, and I feel that he was the absolute best rock singer when he was at his vocal peak from 1972 to 1976. Jeff |
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Post by TM on Aug 1, 2014 10:23:29 GMT -5
While I do like this release and I do have 5.1, I've never used it to listen to it. I just don't have the time or inclination to sit down and devote that kind of attention to music. I am finding that as I get older I am less of a "fan" of things than I used to be. I still enjoy sports and concerts, but I don't have the time that I used to have when I was younger to devote to these activities, and they no longer seem as important to me. As far as Ian is concerned, I have lost a lot of interest since Tull broke up. Part of it is that I am just not that much of a Florian fan, I'm afraid, and also because I find Ian's vocal difficulties to be depressing, considering how great a singer he once was, and I feel that he was the absolute best rock singer when he was at his vocal peak from 1972 to 1976. Jeff Strange how things change... I have to say the these re-re-releases have become a bit much. As much as I appreciate the improved sound, I'm a bit put off by the fact that I've probably purchased some of these albums like 6 or 7 times. Once on 8-track, at least twice on LP, the original CD, the remaster, the 25th anniversary remaster and now the SW remaster. |
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Post by Geoff CB on Aug 3, 2014 22:47:26 GMT -5
Buy everything, then when you guys retire, you'll have time to listen!!!  I make time to listen to SW remixes! Remember, there's "A time for everything". G |
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Post by TM on Aug 4, 2014 10:20:08 GMT -5
Buy everything, then when you guys retire, you'll have time to listen!!! I make time to listen to SW remixes! Remember, there's "A time for everything". G Well here you go Geoff, the release of the SW APP on heavyweight vinyl is out now! APP Vinyl |
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Post by Mix on Aug 4, 2014 12:15:10 GMT -5
I am finding that as I get older I am less of a "fan" of things than I used to be. I still enjoy sports and concerts, but I don't have the time that I used to have when I was younger to devote to these activities, and they no longer seem as important to me. As far as Ian is concerned, I have lost a lot of interest since Tull broke up. Part of it is that I am just not that much of a Florian fan, I'm afraid, and also because I find Ian's vocal difficulties to be depressing, considering how great a singer he once was, and I feel that he was the absolute best rock singer when he was at his vocal peak from 1972 to 1976. Jeff and now the SW remaster. But it's not a remaster it's a remix and none of the albums have ever been remixed before. |
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Post by TM on Aug 4, 2014 19:16:59 GMT -5
You're right Mix this is a remix, and the rest were all remasters. I lost track. All I know is there have been 20-something Tull re-releases in the last 14 years.
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Post by Morthoron on Aug 5, 2014 9:55:50 GMT -5
You're right Mix this is a remix, and the rest were all remasters. I lost track. All I know is there have been 20-something Tull re-releases in the last 14 years. I won't be purchasing any further remixes/remasters/rehashes/regurgitations from Tull. APP was the last, due to the uniqueness of the material, and because it is decidedly different from the previously released material. There is nothing on subsequent releases that will be that unique or unheard or better sounding, really. Most of the muddy studio work occurred previous to War Child, as were all the really great "unreleased" material, much of which appeared on EPs or as singles previous to 1974. The nominal uptick in sound quality is not worth dishing out another $30 or $40 bucks to hear March the Mad Scientist or Beltane grafted on their appropriate sessions. I never cared much for the songs when I heard them on the 20th Anniversary extravaganza. |
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