adams
Claghornist
Posts: 8
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Post by adams on May 10, 2014 12:00:12 GMT -5
This is my first post, so apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere. I thoroughly enjoyed the HE live show, and really thought that Ryan added an extra dimension to the vocals. My question is this: would you still go and see a live show if Ryan took on all the vocal duties? I think I would, if the alternative was no more live performances (or very strained vocals). The songs are just too good to fade away! It would also open up some of the neglected back catalogue (I'd love to hear Black Sunday or Black satin dancer for example in their full glory). It would still be an authentic gig, as I'm sure Ian could do done amazing flute work without worrying about singing. What do you guys and girls think?
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Post by LJG on May 10, 2014 12:06:34 GMT -5
I might... but I'd also be interested in an all instrumental show.
We've seen what can be done with tracks like the "Whistler" when made all instrumental. I think I'd rather see re-worked versions like that than have somebody else take over all of Ian's vocals...
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Post by housebrick on May 10, 2014 12:32:41 GMT -5
My take on it is Ian cant do Tull classics any more ,his voice is totally shot, and current live performances prove this to be fact. On HE his recorded vocals sound ok ,obviuosly studio trickery to keep him in tune etc
Ryan for me i find irritating,he is an actor and it shows,his voice is in tune but has no real character for Tull stuff likes Ians voice once had.
I would prefer to see Ian attempt the acoustic type show ,less strain on his voice ,see if he could handle that without a vocal helper,maybe thats too much now also vocally??
I am openly biased but Martins band sound much more like early Tull to me. Dan Crisp is far better suited vocalist than Ryan for Tull classics.
How about Martin lets Ian join his band as flute player only lol!!!
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Post by TM on May 10, 2014 13:28:47 GMT -5
My take on it is Ian cant do Tull classics any more ,his voice is totally shot, and current live performances prove this to be fact. On HE his recorded vocals sound ok ,obviuosly studio trickery to keep him in tune etc Ryan for me i find irritating,he is an actor and it shows,his voice is in tune but has no real character for Tull stuff likes Ians voice once had. I would prefer to see Ian attempt the acoustic type show ,less strain on his voice ,see if he could handle that without a vocal helper,maybe thats too much now also vocally?? I am openly biased but Martins band sound much more like early Tull to me. Dan Crisp is far better suited vocalist than Ryan for Tull classics. How about Martin lets Ian join his band as flute player only lol!!! That's not a bad idea! lol
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Post by TM on May 10, 2014 13:46:32 GMT -5
This is my first post, so apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere. I thoroughly enjoyed the HE live show, and really thought that Ryan added an extra dimension to the vocals. My question is this: would you still go and see a live show if Ryan took on all the vocal duties? I think I would, if the alternative was no more live performances (or very strained vocals). The songs are just too good to fade away! It would also open up some of the neglected back catalogue (I'd love to hear Black Sunday or Black satin dancer for example in their full glory). It would still be an authentic gig, as I'm sure Ian could do done amazing flute work without worrying about singing. What do you guys and girls think? Welcome to the board. That's a great question. I'm not a big fan of other people singing Tull songs other than actual cover bands. And that's basically what you end up with when Ian's not singing - a Tull cover band. So no I don't think I would. I too prefer to see Ian singing only songs that don't strain his voice. That's what I would hope for.
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Post by LJG on May 10, 2014 14:39:22 GMT -5
The problem with Ryan is he really sounds like what he is... a hired gun. He does not sound like a musician or one who feels anything for the music he's actually participating in. I guess as TM said... he sounds like he's doing a 'performance' as opposed to playing a gig (if that makes sense).
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Post by TM on May 10, 2014 18:49:06 GMT -5
The problem with Ryan is he really sounds like what he is... a hired gun. He does not sound like a musician or one who feels anything for the music he's actually participating in. I guess as TM said... he sounds like he's doing a 'performance' as opposed to playing a gig (if that makes sense). The first time I saw Ryan performing on the TAAB2 tour I found his 'acting' a bit of a distraction as it was very obvious he was simply playing a part. I later learned that he is an actor first and foremost and so it all made sense. If I was managing Ian or even Martin or would have highly recommended Paul Forest as his natural voice is well suited to Tull music and he does a terrific early Ian as well.
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Pieter
One of the Youngest of the Family
Give us direction, the best of goodwill
Posts: 84
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Post by Pieter on May 11, 2014 12:30:17 GMT -5
Interesting topic. I liked Ryan a lot... but to be honest mainly because for most songs Ians voice simply isn't good enough. Well, there I said it, it makes me sad but thats the way it is. I agree that some singers of Tull cover bands would do a very good job if they would be asked to join Ians band,
Pieter
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Post by Geoff CB on May 11, 2014 21:50:31 GMT -5
Ryan will prolong the live shows, I think. Heck, we might even get a show over here!. The situation reminds me of Moe Howard - the driving force and brains behind the Three Stooges. Moe kept saying he would retire the Stooges, as long as he could entertain and not be pitied. But he really never did until Larry passed away, and even then he considered a replacement (Emil Sitka).
Ian is driven like that as well.
Geoff
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Post by Michael Crowe on May 12, 2014 1:47:59 GMT -5
My take on it is Ian cant do Tull classics any more ,his voice is totally shot, and current live performances prove this to be fact. On HE his recorded vocals sound ok ,obviuosly studio trickery to keep him in tune etc Ryan for me i find irritating,he is an actor and it shows,his voice is in tune but has no real character for Tull stuff likes Ians voice once had. I would prefer to see Ian attempt the acoustic type show ,less strain on his voice ,see if he could handle that without a vocal helper,maybe thats too much now also vocally?? I am openly biased but Martins band sound much more like early Tull to me. Dan Crisp is far better suited vocalist than Ryan for Tull classics. How about Martin lets Ian join his band as flute player only lol!!! That's not a bad idea! lol I wouldn't say the voice is shot by a long shot. Ian gave a good honest performance on HE - no studio trickery involved, just a decent performance on good days and good production. Ian's problem has never been pitch, or control, even now. The problem is strength and range, and even without the throat problems he would likely be weaker now at his age and mileage anyway. To me the Ryan thing doesn't work very well. IA/Tull is about Ian singing as much as anything. You either continue on for a while with the challenged vocals, select certain songs he can sing best with a dose of instrumentals, or call the dogs, knock it on the head, call the cows homes, let the fat lady sing, kick the bucket, have the last dance, call it a day ( oh alright ), and give Martin the Jethro Tull name to carry on if he wants it.
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Post by Nonfatman on May 12, 2014 11:07:13 GMT -5
That's not a bad idea! lol I wouldn't say the voice is shot by a long shot. Ian gave a good honest performance on HE - no studio trickery involved, just a decent performance on good days and good production. Ian's problem has never been pitch, or control, even now. The problem is strength and range, and even without the throat problems he would likely be weaker now at his age and mileage anyway. To me the Ryan thing doesn't work very well. IA/Tull is about Ian singing as much as anything. You either continue on for a while with the challenged vocals, select certain songs he can sing best with a dose of instrumentals, or call the dogs, knock it on the head, call the cows homes, let the fat lady sing, kick the bucket, have the last dance, call it a day ( oh alright ), and give Martin the Jethro Tull name to carry on if he wants it. I don't think Ian's voice is shot either. I listened to the studio demos of HE and really liked Ian's voice....he can still sing. The vocals sounded good on HE because they were probably recorded on a separate track (as were all the instruments, I imagine), so Ian wasn't singing over a band. That, I think, is what the main problem is. He cannot sing over a loud rock band. I think Ryan is good, but Ian would have been better off going with ex-Dayglo Pirate Paul Forrest, for a young Ian/old Ian combo, as they did together in this single appearance. Paul's voice is really a clone of young Ian's voice, and he resembles him physically as well.
Once, the wife of a member of another Tull tribute act that I greatly admire opined that their singer sounds better than Ian does currently. I rebuked her about that, because although there guy is (was) pretty good, he was not a true singer like Ian. Even in Ian's vastly reduced vocal state, I still prefer his vocals to any Tull tribute singer, with the exception of Paul Forrest. I think Paul is still doing Tull stuff with an Israeli prog tribute act called Bubble Bath. Having said all that, I do agree with Housebrick about how good Dan Crisp is on vocals in Martin's band, his voice is well-suited for the Tull material and the CD I have of one of Martin's shows from last October blew me away, particularly Martin's re-worked guitar solo on his version of Thick as a Brick, which literally brought tears of joy to my eyes. But the whole show was tremendous, the covers that they did and I think some of Dan's original songs as well. Jeff Attachments:
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Post by Mix on May 12, 2014 12:14:44 GMT -5
That's not a bad idea! lol I wouldn't say the voice is shot by a long shot. Ian gave a good honest performance on HE - no studio trickery involved, just a decent performance on good days and good production. Ian's problem has never been pitch, or control, even now. The problem is strength and range, and even without the throat problems he would likely be weaker now at his age and mileage anyway. I agree with you there, Michael.
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Post by Mix on May 12, 2014 12:28:52 GMT -5
This is my first post, so apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere. I thoroughly enjoyed the HE live show, and really thought that Ryan added an extra dimension to the vocals. My question is this: would you still go and see a live show if Ryan took on all the vocal duties? I think I would, if the alternative was no more live performances (or very strained vocals). The songs are just too good to fade away! It would also open up some of the neglected back catalogue (I'd love to hear Black Sunday or Black satin dancer for example in their full glory). It would still be an authentic gig, as I'm sure Ian could do done amazing flute work without worrying about singing. What do you guys and girls think? As others have said, the songs stand up by themselves. Ian is one of the finest songwriters full stop and prolific too. I understand what others say about Ryan, he is very theatrical and that in itself ads hugely to the current show/band. But the question is should another singer take over from Ian? I say yes. At this late stage in the game it does the legacy's reputation no good when Ian gives a bad vocal performance live. Its ok for all us fans who have followed him for years. We know he was once a fine fine singer and its sad to see him struggle but we continue to support him. My concern is if I had never been to see Ian/Tull before and I turned up to catch this tour and Ian wasn't having a good night I would be thinking WTF? Now you could argue that Ian doesn't need any new fans but that's not the point. The point is all the elements bar one are exceptional in the live show. The material, the musicianship, the band members, the presentation. Its all really good but to allow the vocals to be sub standard isn't really acceptable. What I noticed in Birmingham last week was when Ian and Ryan sang together it really worked. Clearly Ian's voice issue is finally being addressed with Ryan taking over perhaps 30% of the singing. I'd like to see that expanded, perhaps with Ian doing the lesser role. Arguing about who the singer is really isn't worth it. Paul Forest might have the voice but would have the commitment and personality to fit? Ryan clearly does have those. He's also a good singer. You may not like his voice but he gets the job done. So yes, I have no issue with the singing being done by someone else. Do I wish Ian still had the voice? Of course, no one can come close to him but why can't you go to an Ian Anderson concert and know you're going to get an amazing band performing Ian Anderson's music. I mean look how many vocalists Zappa had. It worked really well for him.
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Post by LJG on May 12, 2014 19:49:07 GMT -5
Let the songs evolve with the voice. 1990 Jerry Garcia did not sound like 1972 Jerry... but the emotional delivery remained... and with some songs it worked very well.
Now Ian's voice isn't like Jerry's... Jerry had the emotional range if not the tone... but I wouldn't have wanted to see anyone else take over his songs for as long as he was alive...
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Post by housebrick on May 13, 2014 6:37:43 GMT -5
Im all for Ian continuing live but in reality there isnt many good live vocals from him these days. Yeah on HE he sounds decent ,studio trickery or not who knows. But live he cant get near even HE standards.
Maybe a much lighter show i.e. acoustic wouldnt push his voice as much. Maybe just flute and guitar playing .
But attemtping Tull songs live now is a no no. Some people like Ryan, i personally cringe at it all ,its just so false he shows no genuine passion for the music to me.
Ive noticed all the HE tour live youtubes have been taken down.
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