Ian IS Jethro Tull

[TM]

Anderson is still engaging and decidedly eccentric, happy to chat on a whole host of subjects, from flute-playing techniques to dining in terrible restaurants.  But he gets serious when asked the one question people most want to know: what's happened to Jethro Tull, have they split if he's touring on his own? To which he has one answer: he IS Jethro Tull....

Ian is Jethro Tull

[Biggles]

Jun 16, 2014 11:28:55 GMT -5 TM said:

Anderson is still engaging and decidedly eccentric, happy to chat on a whole host of subjects, from flute-playing techniques to dining in terrible restaurants.  But he gets serious when asked the one question people most want to know: what's happened to Jethro Tull, have they split if he's touring on his own? To which he has one answer: he IS Jethro Tull....

Ian is Jethro Tull

“I appreciate that I am not a likeable guy,” he said, chuckling. Comparing his own recent output to that of his peers, Anderson shrugged: “There are of course many great rock musicians, but a lot of them are boring, repetitive, mindless and imitative.

Read More: Ian Anderson Weighs in on Possibility of New Jethro Tull Album | ultimateclassicrock.com/no-more-jethro-tull/?trackback=tsmclip


Has Ian even listened to himself lately? He's starting to sound like Alice Cooper .. oh oh, wait a minute. I mean WHATS HIS NAME!

[StanDup]

Jun 16, 2014 19:34:09 GMT -5 Biggles said:

Jun 16, 2014 11:28:55 GMT -5 TM said:

Anderson is still engaging and decidedly eccentric, happy to chat on a whole host of subjects, from flute-playing techniques to dining in terrible restaurants.  But he gets serious when asked the one question people most want to know: what's happened to Jethro Tull, have they split if he's touring on his own? To which he has one answer: he IS Jethro Tull....

Ian is Jethro Tull

“I appreciate that I am not a likeable guy,” he said, chuckling. Comparing his own recent output to that of his peers, Anderson shrugged: “There are of course many great rock musicians, but a lot of them are boring, repetitive, mindless and imitative.

Read More: Ian Anderson Weighs in on Possibility of New Jethro Tull Album | ultimateclassicrock.com/no-more-jethro-tull/?trackback=tsmclip


Has Ian even listened to himself lately? He starting to sound like Alice Cooper .. oh oh, wait a minute. I mean WHATS HIS NAME!

[StanDup]

This is interesting because not everyone can make this "I Am The Band" proclamation. Ozzy can not say I am Black Sabbath. Jimmy Page can not say I am Led Zeppelin. But a very select few successful artist that have carved their niche in music under a band name can say this. I'm thinking Jerry Garcia/Dead, Frank Zappa/Mothers Of Invention, Tom Petty/Heartbreakers. Ian can say it.

[StanDup]

Read what he said in Classic Rock Mag:    “A Jethro Tull concert isn’t impossible in the future,” he admitted. “But who’s going to be in the band? A lot of them don’t play, aren’t feeling terribly well or are dead. Or, in terms of musical ability, wouldn’t hack it. There are some who it’d be fun to have in the band, but only for a day or two. Then it would be frustrating for BOTH of us.”  Is that a snipe at Martin?  After all the only original member since 2nd album has been Martin. None of these other guys has been a blip on the horizon in a long time. Maybe the interviewer had been pressing him about a reunion with the 1st lineup.  

[Biggles]

Jun 17, 2014 1:51:03 GMT -5 StanDup said:

This is interesting because not everyone can make this "I Am The Band" proclamation. Ozzy can not say I am Black Sabbath. Jimmy Page can not say I am Led Zeppelin. But a very select few successful artist that have carved their niche in music under a band name can say this. I'm thinking Jerry Garcia/Dead, Frank Zappa/Mothers Of Invention, Tom Petty/Heartbreakers. Ian can say it.

Have you listened to dot.com or RTB lately? I have. Those two releases still had the element of a 'band' atmosphere. I hear a group of guys starting to gel on HomoE but, it's much more 'Ian Tull' than 'I am Tull'. (Jethro let the gas outta' the bag perhaps)

[Michael Crowe]

Jun 17, 2014 20:26:58 GMT -5 Biggles said:

Jun 17, 2014 1:51:03 GMT -5 StanDup said:

This is interesting because not everyone can make this "I Am The Band" proclamation. Ozzy can not say I am Black Sabbath. Jimmy Page can not say I am Led Zeppelin. But a very select few successful artist that have carved their niche in music under a band name can say this. I'm thinking Jerry Garcia/Dead, Frank Zappa/Mothers Of Invention, Tom Petty/Heartbreakers. Ian can say it.

Have you listened to dot.com or RTB lately? I have. Those two releases still had the element of a 'band' atmosphere. I hear a group of guys starting to gel on HomoE but, it's much more 'Ian Tull' than 'I am Tull'. (Jethro let the gas outta' the bag perhaps)

Yeah, RTB sounds like a band. Dot Com sounds a bit like band, but one on salary. Homo sounds like a band on salary, but one where the salary is pretty good.

P.S. Bigs, I've been meaning to tell you ...... You know that thing about you going down to Cornwall for some rest? Well, yes, I do have a problem with that.

[LJG]

Never in a MILLION years would Jerry Garcia have ever declared himself the Grateful Dead.

And it would be entirely false anyway. The lyrics? Not Jerry. The music? Most of it not by Jerry. Set aside the fact that the band itself started as PigPen's vehicle.

Sorry... just had to chime in on a subject near and dear to my heart.


I do, however, believe Ian can say it.

[TM]

Ian can do and say whatever he wants.  The truth is, everyone outside the band always felt it was his band anyway and yet for years, he's tried to dispel that idea.  But now of course he's fully embracing it which contradicts all his past comments that it really was a band effort. 

I can't help but empathize with the past members as they of course feel slighted over the metamorphosis of Tull's history.  It's certainly difficult to listen to Ian rewrite Tull's history at this late stage.  The contributions that were made by the most influential Tull members are clearly evident, and despite what Ian says, he can never take them away.   

Talk about a game of solitaire.
 

[TM]

Bruce Springsteen's ownership of his music is very similar to Ian's.  And while I don't know very much about their history, it's clear they went through some rough times just like any other band.  Not too long ago I watched Bruce give his induction speech for the E-Street Band's entrance into the Hall Of Fame.  As I listened to Bruce I couldn't help appreciate the bond he shared with this band as he spoke of it's triumphs and the challenges - but at the same time I couldn't help but have this feeling of disappointment and even anger how these feelings escape our very own Ian Anderson - to put it nicely.

Here's some excerpts from Bruce's speech:
 
"So, real bands — real bands are made primarily from the neighborhood. From a real time and real place that exists for a little while, then changes and is gone forever. They’re made from the same circumstances, the same needs, the same hungers, culture. They’re forged in the search of something more promising than what you were born into. These are the elements, the tools, and these are the people who built the place called E Street.

Now, E Street was a dance; was an idea; was a wish; was a refuge; was a home; was a destination; was a gutter dream; and finally, it was a band. We struggled together, and sometimes, we struggled with one another. We bathed in the glory, and often, the heartbreaking confusion of our rewards together. We’ve enjoyed health, and we’ve suffered illness and aging and death together. We took care of one another when trouble knocked, and we hurt one another in big and small ways.

But in the end, we kept faith in each other. And one thing is for certain: As I said before in reference to Clarence Clemons — I told a story with the E Street Band that was, and is, bigger than I ever could have told on my own. And I believe that settles that question.

But that is the hallmark of a rock and roll band — the narrative you tell together is bigger than anyone could have told on your own. That’s the Rolling Stones; the Sex Pistols; that’s Bob Marley and the Wailers. That’s James Brown and His Famous Flames. That’s Neil Young and Crazy Horse."
Sixteen years ago, a few days before my own induction, I stood in my darkened kitchen along with Steve Van Zandt. Steve was just returning to the band after a 15-year hiatus and he was petitioning me to push the Hall of Fame to induct all of us together. I listened, and the Hall of Fame had its rules, and I was proud of my independence. We hadn’t played together in 10 years, we were somewhat estranged, we were just taking the first small steps over reforming. We didn’t know what the future would bring. And perhaps the shadows of some of the old grudges held some sway.

It was a conundrum, as we’ve never quite been fish nor fowl. And Steve was quiet, but persistent. And at the end of our conversation, he just said, "Yeah, I understand. But Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band — that’s the legend."

So Tull fans, what is the legend for you?  Is it the 27 or however many people Ian calls Tull members?  Is it your favorite Tull band from a certain era?  Or is Ian alone the legend of Tull?

Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it  Ian has been re-writing Tull's history since the release of TAAB2.  It was then when he surprised former band members and long-time Tull fans as he purported that TAAB was actually not in fact a group effort but was 'his baby' as HE wrote it and HE recorded it.

Have a listen:




And if this wasn't bad enough, Ian has now taken things a step further by taking claim to all Tull's music.  In a recent interview, Marcel Hartenberg quoted Ian saying this:

"It’s me, my music, whether it’s Jethro Tull or under my own name."

In a recent Yahoo interview, Ian had this to say:

"...There has been something like 26 members over the years, and I'm the common factor." (No shit Ian, you basically dumped everyone in the band)

"I'm the guy who wrote the music, produced the records, managed the band and does the obvious frontman things of singing, playing the flute etc."

"What Jethro Tull is today in my twilight years, as I sally forth on the final journey to oblivion, is repertoire - it's my songs."

Okay Ian we got it. But what exactly did you mean when you said this?

"A lot of people have gotten the idea that Jethro Tull has always been Ian Anderson being very dictatorial about things. But it's not like that — it has been on occasional songs, but very rarely on whole albums. The music has always been very much the product of the people who were in the group at the time, and everyone's opinion has always gotten a fair hearing."

And when you say "It's my music, my songs, and you're the common factor," how do you explain these comments that you made about the Martin's role in Jethro Tull?

"Well, I think Martin is Jethro Tull and, next to me, he's the longest-serving member. I mean, I would say that the dominant image of Jethro Tull is probably me standing on one leg playing the flute, as well as certain obvious songs. But the next thing after that has got to be something to do with Martin Barre. So I would say Martin is the dominant Jethro Tull personality in the musical sense. Although Jethro Tull has many different facets and characters, according to the finer points of who makes up the band at any point in time, you get the feeling that if you took Martin Barre away, it really wouldn't be Jethro Tull anymore."

Delving deeper into the actual song writing process, Ian might recall saying this:

"In terms of a particular song, a particular chord sequence or a particular obvious melodic riff, the chances are it's part of the music I've written. But when it comes to putting all the detail and the finer points together, it's Martin's invention. I will usually push him to consider as many possibilities before we commit ourselves to a definitive route. For me, that's part of making music. Most of what Martin plays is of his invention, not mine. Most of the things that in some way make him special as a guitar player are that way because he is special as a guitar player."

So when Ian decided that he didn't want to record new material with Martin and he heard it from Tull fans what was his response with Dave Rees in AND issue 103?

"Fuck off, don't come.....Ten minutes into the show if you're not enjoying it do the honorable thing - shoot yourself or quietly leave. If you shoot yourself, I could probably work it into the show if you give me enough warning but if you quietly leave no-one will notice, including me. So I'm easy..."

Thanks Ian.  I enjoyed the ride.  

[Biggles]

Jun 18, 2014 1:24:36 GMT -5 Michael Crowe said:

Jun 17, 2014 20:26:58 GMT -5 Biggles said:

Have you listened to dot.com or RTB lately? I have. Those two releases still had the element of a 'band' atmosphere. I hear a group of guys starting to gel on HomoE but, it's much more 'Ian Tull' than 'I am Tull'. (Jethro let the gas outta' the bag perhaps)

Yeah, RTB sounds like a band. Dot Com sounds a bit like band, but one on salary. Homo sounds like a band on salary, but one where the salary is pretty good.

P.S. Bigs, I've been meaning to tell you ...... You know that thing about you going down to Cornwall for some rest? Well, yes, I do have a problem with that.

I am sick of that "I'm off to Cornhole for some rest" sign-off, so I shit-canned it 'cuz...

[Biggles]

Jun 17, 2014 16:22:21 GMT -5 StanDup said:

Read what he said in Classic Rock Mag:    “A Jethro Tull concert isn’t impossible in the future,” he admitted. “But who’s going to be in the band? A lot of them don’t play, aren’t feeling terribly well or are dead. Or, in terms of musical ability, wouldn’t hack it. There are some who it’d be fun to have in the band, but only for a day or two. Then it would be frustrating for BOTH of us.”  Is that a snipe at Martin?  After all the only original member since 2nd album has been Martin. None of these other guys has been a blip on the horizon in a long time. Maybe the interviewer had been pressing him about a reunion with the 1st lineup.  

Yeah I read it too, all I'm saying is when Ian was going under the name Jethro Tull, you could hear the band members contributions on those releases. Now you can't. Like you said about TAAB2, tedious. I'm not looking for a reunion either, maybe Ian is just sick of the question.

[LJG]

Thank god I don't pick my favourite bands/musicians based on their personality or their moral character.

Because if that was the driving consideration, I'd have nothing to listen to.

[Michael Crowe]

Jun 18, 2014 21:57:27 GMT -5 Biggles said:

Jun 18, 2014 1:24:36 GMT -5 Michael Crowe said:

Yeah, RTB sounds like a band. Dot Com sounds a bit like band, but one on salary. Homo sounds like a band on salary, but one where the salary is pretty good.

P.S. Bigs, I've been meaning to tell you ...... You know that thing about you going down to Cornwall for some rest? Well, yes, I do have a problem with that.

I am sick of that "I'm off to Cornhole for some rest" sign-off, so I shit-canned it 'cuz...

Oh man, now I miss it. Gotta bring it back.

[Michael Crowe]

Jun 18, 2014 21:18:43 GMT -5 TM said:

Bruce Springsteen's ownership of his music is very similar to Ian's.  And while I don't know very much about their history, it's clear they went through some rough times just like any other band.  Not too long ago I watched Bruce give his induction speech for the E-Street Band's entrance into the Hall Of Fame.  As I listened to Bruce I couldn't help appreciate the bond he shared with this band as he spoke of it's triumphs and the challenges - but at the same time I couldn't help but have this feeling of disappointment and even anger how these feelings escape our very own Ian Anderson - to put it nicely.

Here's some excerpts from Bruce's speech:
 
"So, real bands — real bands are made primarily from the neighborhood. From a real time and real place that exists for a little while, then changes and is gone forever. They’re made from the same circumstances, the same needs, the same hungers, culture. They’re forged in the search of something more promising than what you were born into. These are the elements, the tools, and these are the people who built the place called E Street.

Now, E Street was a dance; was an idea; was a wish; was a refuge; was a home; was a destination; was a gutter dream; and finally, it was a band. We struggled together, and sometimes, we struggled with one another. We bathed in the glory, and often, the heartbreaking confusion of our rewards together. We’ve enjoyed health, and we’ve suffered illness and aging and death together. We took care of one another when trouble knocked, and we hurt one another in big and small ways.

But in the end, we kept faith in each other. And one thing is for certain: As I said before in reference to Clarence Clemons — I told a story with the E Street Band that was, and is, bigger than I ever could have told on my own. And I believe that settles that question.

But that is the hallmark of a rock and roll band — the narrative you tell together is bigger than anyone could have told on your own. That’s the Rolling Stones; the Sex Pistols; that’s Bob Marley and the Wailers. That’s James Brown and His Famous Flames. That’s Neil Young and Crazy Horse."
Sixteen years ago, a few days before my own induction, I stood in my darkened kitchen along with Steve Van Zandt. Steve was just returning to the band after a 15-year hiatus and he was petitioning me to push the Hall of Fame to induct all of us together. I listened, and the Hall of Fame had its rules, and I was proud of my independence. We hadn’t played together in 10 years, we were somewhat estranged, we were just taking the first small steps over reforming. We didn’t know what the future would bring. And perhaps the shadows of some of the old grudges held some sway.

It was a conundrum, as we’ve never quite been fish nor fowl. And Steve was quiet, but persistent. And at the end of our conversation, he just said, "Yeah, I understand. But Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band — that’s the legend."

So Tull fans, what is the legend for you?  Is it the 27 or however many people Ian calls Tull members?  Is it your favorite Tull band from a certain era?  Or is Ian alone the legend of Tull?

Correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it  Ian has been re-writing Tull's history since the release of TAAB2.  It was then when he surprised former band members and long-time Tull fans as he purported that TAAB was actually not in fact a group effort but was 'his baby' as HE wrote it and HE recorded it.

Have a listen:




And if this wasn't bad enough, Ian has now taken things a step further by taking claim to all Tull's music.  In a recent interview, Marcel Hartenberg quoted Ian saying this:

"It’s me, my music, whether it’s Jethro Tull or under my own name."

In a recent Yahoo interview, Ian had this to say:

"...There has been something like 26 members over the years, and I'm the common factor." (No shit Ian, you basically dumped everyone in the band)

"I'm the guy who wrote the music, produced the records, managed the band and does the obvious frontman things of singing, playing the flute etc."

"What Jethro Tull is today in my twilight years, as I sally forth on the final journey to oblivion, is repertoire - it's my songs."

Okay Ian we got it. But what exactly did you mean when you said this?

"A lot of people have gotten the idea that Jethro Tull has always been Ian Anderson being very dictatorial about things. But it's not like that — it has been on occasional songs, but very rarely on whole albums. The music has always been very much the product of the people who were in the group at the time, and everyone's opinion has always gotten a fair hearing."

And when you say "It's my music, my songs, and you're the common factor," how do you explain these comments that you made about the Martin's role in Jethro Tull?

"Well, I think Martin is Jethro Tull and, next to me, he's the longest-serving member. I mean, I would say that the dominant image of Jethro Tull is probably me standing on one leg playing the flute, as well as certain obvious songs. But the next thing after that has got to be something to do with Martin Barre. So I would say Martin is the dominant Jethro Tull personality in the musical sense. Although Jethro Tull has many different facets and characters, according to the finer points of who makes up the band at any point in time, you get the feeling that if you took Martin Barre away, it really wouldn't be Jethro Tull anymore."

Delving deeper into the actual song writing process, Ian might recall saying this:

"In terms of a particular song, a particular chord sequence or a particular obvious melodic riff, the chances are it's part of the music I've written. But when it comes to putting all the detail and the finer points together, it's Martin's invention. I will usually push him to consider as many possibilities before we commit ourselves to a definitive route. For me, that's part of making music. Most of what Martin plays is of his invention, not mine. Most of the things that in some way make him special as a guitar player are that way because he is special as a guitar player."

So when Ian decided that he didn't want to record new material with Martin and he heard it from Tull fans what was his response with Dave Rees in AND issue 103?

"Fuck off, don't come.....Ten minutes into the show if you're not enjoying it do the honorable thing - shoot yourself or quietly leave. If you shoot yourself, I could probably work it into the show if you give me enough warning but if you quietly leave no-one will notice, including me. So I'm easy..."

Thanks Ian.  I enjoyed the ride.  

I always felt for Barry and John Evan the most. But as Dave Pegg said, "It's Ian's baby." I think the players from the 80s and 90s understood, or should have understood the situation there. Certainly Martin did. So Pegg got out on his own terms and Martin had his run. Sad that Martin, who had shaped so much of the music got the slip, but what did he expect - wasn't there a track record. I think the thing with Evan and Barlow was a bit more careless. At the end of the day Ian is a business man, he has the name and he is the face of Tull. Yeah he's a bit of a jerk, always has been, so all the more the results should have been expected. But that's the music business and show business in general. There's little security in that biz and it's all about opportunity, timing, luck, and mostly short careers. Barry is, or was, a millionaire. So is Martin, and Ian's music and savy gave him the career he has now. Grow up and move on. It might not be right, fair or moral, but nobody was forced to play with Ian. As for IA's comments, no surprise there. He's trying to shake a past that he will never be able to shake. The Martin question will always come up so that's his cross to bear. He has always rattled on before he thought things out - he likes to blab, which is part of the ego thing so there'll be contridictions. I've never put much stock in anything that rolls out of a guy like that. I've worked with those types before - he's nothing special beyond a fair measure of talent. As we say here in the south, "Just another starving picker who got a break." Had he not, he would likely have been a car salesman, hustler, record executive's assistant, or Aqualung. So I'd just call the lot of this a slow news day. Ho hum ...

[TM]

Jun 19, 2014 1:22:18 GMT -5 Michael Crowe said:

I always felt for Barry and John Evan the most. But as Dave Pegg said, "It's Ian's baby." I think the players from the 80s and 90s understood, or should have understood the situation there. Certainly Martin did. So Pegg got out on his own terms and Martin had his run. Sad that Martin, who had shaped so much of the music got the slip, but what did he expect - wasn't there a track record. I think the thing with Evan and Barlow was a bit more careless. At the end of the day Ian is a business man, he has the name and he is the face of Tull. Yeah he's a bit of a jerk, always has been, so all the more the results should have been expected. But that's the music business and show business in general. There's little security in that biz and it's all about opportunity, timing, luck, and mostly short careers. Barry is, or was, a millionaire. So is Martin, and Ian's music and savy gave him the career he has now. Grow up and move on. It might not be right, fair or moral, but nobody was forced to play with Ian. As for IA's comments, no surprise there. He's trying to shake a past that he will never be able to shake. The Martin question will always come up so that's his cross to bear. He has always rattled on before he thought things out - he likes to blab, which is part of the ego thing so there'll be contridictions. I've never put much stock in anything that rolls out of a guy like that. I've worked with those types before - he's nothing special beyond a fair measure of talent. As we say here in the south, "Just another starving picker who got a break." Had he not, he would likely have been a car salesman, hustler, record executive's assistant, or Aqualung. So I'd just call the lot of this a slow news day. Ho hum ...

You're right. But I just couldn't help but think of all the animosity within Tull as I listened to Bruce pay tribute to his band.

It's just so low rent seeing Ian breaking out his eraser during his waning years.

[Mix]

Ian is a complex character and he has many flaws.
The question is why do we love his music? I would answer that by saying we love it because it's unique. He writes unique chord progressions and melodies. He writes unique lyrics. He uses a unique blend of instrumentation. He has a unique voice. He is a unique front man performer. There isn't and never will be another Ian Anderson. He's also very intelligent and switched on.
When you consider his achievements, I mean really think about it, he's kept this amazing ride going constantly all on his own terms and on his own energy.
Ian has always been a bit of a loner, its no wonder he's able to detach himself from people as is required.
I think what I'm getting at is its easy to try to break him down and take issue with the things he said then and now and the way people around him got treated. I'm sure Ian has regrets but the fact is had Ian been 'a good old boy' we would never have had this ride we have all enjoyed for so long.
I wouldn't change a thing and while I too love many of the guys who came and went through Ian's band and indeed wished some would return, Ian knows best ultimately and we have to respect his choices. The proof is in the pudding and there's still another slice or two for those who want to stick around.

[Michael Crowe]

Jun 19, 2014 9:30:10 GMT -5 TM said:

Jun 19, 2014 1:22:18 GMT -5 Michael Crowe said:

I always felt for Barry and John Evan the most. But as Dave Pegg said, "It's Ian's baby." I think the players from the 80s and 90s understood, or should have understood the situation there. Certainly Martin did. So Pegg got out on his own terms and Martin had his run. Sad that Martin, who had shaped so much of the music got the slip, but what did he expect - wasn't there a track record. I think the thing with Evan and Barlow was a bit more careless. At the end of the day Ian is a business man, he has the name and he is the face of Tull. Yeah he's a bit of a jerk, always has been, so all the more the results should have been expected. But that's the music business and show business in general. There's little security in that biz and it's all about opportunity, timing, luck, and mostly short careers. Barry is, or was, a millionaire. So is Martin, and Ian's music and savy gave him the career he has now. Grow up and move on. It might not be right, fair or moral, but nobody was forced to play with Ian. As for IA's comments, no surprise there. He's trying to shake a past that he will never be able to shake. The Martin question will always come up so that's his cross to bear. He has always rattled on before he thought things out - he likes to blab, which is part of the ego thing so there'll be contridictions. I've never put much stock in anything that rolls out of a guy like that. I've worked with those types before - he's nothing special beyond a fair measure of talent. As we say here in the south, "Just another starving picker who got a break." Had he not, he would likely have been a car salesman, hustler, record executive's assistant, or Aqualung. So I'd just call the lot of this a slow news day. Ho hum ...

You're right. But I just couldn't help but think of all the animosity within Tull as I listened to Bruce pay tribute to his band.

It's just so low rent seeing Ian breaking out his eraser during his waning years.

I know. Ill-bred as they used to say. I just call it simple bad manners - and the comment in AND bad taste to say the least. Mix made mention of Ian being a loner and that's true, so am I. But that shouldn't have any bearing on how you treat people. Hope I didn't offend by shrugging it all off - talking Tull is what we do here (sometimes), but when it comes to musicians and bands - it's usually all so petty. Musicans are often like pro atheletes. They've been getting away with doing the same thing since they were kids and haven't had much of a life outside of what they do. They get spoild and have a narrow view of things and a large part of their character seldom grows up. I mean some of these guys .... how can you carry a grudge over something that happened when you were 18 and didn't even know how to use a fork or balance a check book.

[TM]

Jun 19, 2014 16:11:34 GMT -5 Michael Crowe said:

Jun 19, 2014 9:30:10 GMT -5 TM said:

You're right. But I just couldn't help but think of all the animosity within Tull as I listened to Bruce pay tribute to his band.

It's just so low rent seeing Ian breaking out his eraser during his waning years.

I know. Ill-bred as they used to say. I just call it simple bad manners - and the comment in AND bad taste to say the least. Mix made mention of Ian being a loner and that's true, so am I. But that shouldn't have any bearing on how you treat people. Hope I didn't offend by shrugging it all off - talking Tull is what we do here (sometimes), but when it comes to musicians and bands - it's usually all so petty. Musicans are often like pro atheletes. They've been getting away with doing the same thing since they were kids and haven't had much of a life outside of what they do. They get spoild and have a narrow view of things and a large part of their character seldom grows up. I mean some of these guys .... how can you carry a grudge over something that happened when you were 18 and didn't even know how to use a fork or balance a check book.

I'm not sure if I made this public before, but prior to the release of Martin's Away With Words I had a conversion with him about the split amongst other things.  The one thing Martin said that stuck with me is that he knew he would become forgotten, just like Barrie, John, and David.  I have to admit, that I never even considered that, but now as I see Ian attempting to take on the Tull moniker, it just really ticks me off.

[Michael Crowe]

Jun 19, 2014 16:38:52 GMT -5 TM said:

Jun 19, 2014 16:11:34 GMT -5 Michael Crowe said:

I know. Ill-bred as they used to say. I just call it simple bad manners - and the comment in AND bad taste to say the least. Mix made mention of Ian being a loner and that's true, so am I. But that shouldn't have any bearing on how you treat people. Hope I didn't offend by shrugging it all off - talking Tull is what we do here (sometimes), but when it comes to musicians and bands - it's usually all so petty. Musicans are often like pro atheletes. They've been getting away with doing the same thing since they were kids and haven't had much of a life outside of what they do. They get spoild and have a narrow view of things and a large part of their character seldom grows up. I mean some of these guys .... how can you carry a grudge over something that happened when you were 18 and didn't even know how to use a fork or balance a check book.

I'm not sure if I made this public before, but prior to the release of Martin's Away With Words I had a conversion with him about the split amongst other things.  The one thing Martin said that stuck with me is that he knew he would become forgotten, just like Barrie, John, and David.  I have to admit, that I never even considered that, but now as I see Ian attempting to take on the Tull moniker, it just really ticks me off.

Martin did actually alude to that in an interview once - can't recall where, where he mentioned that it would irritate him to see someone else have at the music he helped to create, or something of that ilk. He certainly felt he had a hefty part in Jethro Tull. It ticks me off too but hardly surprising you know. However I don't think will go the way of Barlow, Evan and Palmer. That guy is a heavyweight in the prog/folk rock world. I don't think he realizes that.

[TM]

Jun 19, 2014 16:50:17 GMT -5 Michael Crowe said:

Jun 19, 2014 16:38:52 GMT -5 TM said:

I'm not sure if I made this public before, but prior to the release of Martin's Away With Words I had a conversion with him about the split amongst other things.  The one thing Martin said that stuck with me is that he knew he would become forgotten, just like Barrie, John, and David.  I have to admit, that I never even considered that, but now as I see Ian attempting to take on the Tull moniker, it just really ticks me off.

Martin did actually alude to that in an interview once - can't recall where, where he mentioned that it would irritate him to see someone else have at the music he helped to create, or something of that ilk. He certainly felt he had a hefty part in Jethro Tull. It ticks me off too but hardly surprising you know. However I don't think will go the way of Barlow, Evan and Palmer. That guy is a heavyweight in the prog/folk rock world. I don't think he realizes that.

Interesting.  I was thinking he strictly meant Tull fans would forget him.  But like you said, not only is he a heavyweight, he's probably the most beloved member of the band in addition to being a helluva nice guy. 

I don't think I can recall a show where Martin did take time out to chat and sign autographs. 

[Mix]

Michael, Ian being a loner isn't a reason to treat people badly but I see Ian no differently than a company boss who has successfully kept the company going and the shareholders happy. Frank Zappa could be ruthless, Steve Jobs could be insane, I think its a quality of extremely driven people and whatever their behaviour, they get amazing results.
Ian has a huge ego too but he's quite an unlikely rock star. I once read that had Ian not been a rock star he might have liked to be in the police. The strange thing is I can see him as Police commissioner or some high up role.

If you listen to Ian's entire catalog you can hear that the core of it is his music otherwise you couldn't have consistency. The compositional contributions by others can clearly be heard by heavyweights like Barre, Evans & vettese or the outstanding musical contributions by people like Barrie. But through Ian flows this unique amazing gift of song and ideas. Who he chooses to work with to interpret those ideas is surely determined not only by their ability but by their personal relationship with Ian.
I'm just trying to imagine how it is for Ian. He has this thing that he does, that no one else in the world can do, he has millions of people watching his every move and an entire business to keep afloat. He's surrounded by people who he must rely on to get the job done but let's just say one of those people is pissing him off. Maybe for no good reason other than they just don't gel personally anymore. What's Ian gonna do? Ignore it because he's a nice guy?
Its not easy to replace a member of a band, especially one performing the often complicated arrangements of Ian's music, let alone the commitments that band must be under. Switching out a member is risky. You gotta go back to rehearsal, you gotta hope the new guy is accepted by the rest of the band, its a complicated dynamic and its rare to get a group of guys functioning perfectly without any weak links. I actually think the current band is a band that Ian is happy with and as a result its given us a return to form and two new studio albums and a proper stage show. But considering when I saw the band last month and the only change in that band was Martin compared to when I saw them in 2011, one can conclude that it was an issue between Ian and Martin that was at the heart of the most dullest period in Ian's career the last ten years of no new albums and a never ending best of tour.
Clearly Ian struggled on and on for a decade or more with Martin out of loyalty, fear and change. But change did come eventually and its worked out.
I'm not taking a dig at Martin, I'd have him back in a flash but a musical collaboration is as as much about the personal relationship as it is about the music.

[Mix]

Jun 19, 2014 16:38:52 GMT -5 TM said:

Jun 19, 2014 16:11:34 GMT -5 Michael Crowe said:

I know. Ill-bred as they used to say. I just call it simple bad manners - and the comment in AND bad taste to say the least. Mix made mention of Ian being a loner and that's true, so am I. But that shouldn't have any bearing on how you treat people. Hope I didn't offend by shrugging it all off - talking Tull is what we do here (sometimes), but when it comes to musicians and bands - it's usually all so petty. Musicans are often like pro atheletes. They've been getting away with doing the same thing since they were kids and haven't had much of a life outside of what they do. They get spoild and have a narrow view of things and a large part of their character seldom grows up. I mean some of these guys .... how can you carry a grudge over something that happened when you were 18 and didn't even know how to use a fork or balance a check book.

I'm not sure if I made this public before, but prior to the release of Martin's Away With Words I had a conversion with him about the split amongst other things.  The one thing Martin said that stuck with me is that he knew he would become forgotten, just like Barrie, John, and David.

Forgotten by who? People who think Ian's name is Jethro? Maybe so but for the true fans, we're still talking about Barrie, John and David.
Martin, above all the people who have worked with Ian has been there the longest. Whatever Ian does in his remaining years, no matter how good it may be, will never stand up to classic Tull 70's works. Martin was present then and all the way up to 2011. Nothing can take that away from him.
And even in 50 years time when people are listening to the music, it will be clear to anyone who is truly interested that Martin's contribution was huge. His legacy is just fine.

Where I have sympathy for Martin is he's gone from playing 2000 seater plus venues with crew and comforts and a nice salary to playing 200-300 seater clubs and probably making a loss or at the very best only breaking even. That must be quite a change to get your head round though Martin clearly loves to play and he's lucky enough not to need the money. I thought Away With Words was a masterpiece and I was very disappointed by the reaction of some fans, especially people like Dave Rees. Martin needed to make that album and he should have got more support.
I still think there is a possibility of Ian and Martin working together but it may be a while off and it all depends if their health holds up.
I've got a feeling that Ian is in the final stages of his touring career.

[TM]

Jun 20, 2014 4:54:31 GMT -5 Mix said:

Michael, Ian being a loner isn't a reason to treat people badly but I see Ian no differently than a company boss who has successfully kept the company going and the shareholders happy. Frank Zappa could be ruthless, Steve Jobs could be insane, I think its a quality of extremely driven people and whatever their behaviour, they get amazing results.
Ian has a huge ego too but he's quite an unlikely rock star. I once read that had Ian not been a rock star he might have liked to be in the police. The strange thing is I can see him as Police commissioner or some high up role.

If you listen to Ian's entire catalog you can hear that the core of it is his music otherwise you couldn't have consistency. The compositional contributions by others can clearly be heard by heavyweights like Barre, Evans & vettese or the outstanding musical contributions by people like Barrie. But through Ian flows this unique amazing gift of song and ideas. Who he chooses to work with to interpret those ideas is surely determined not only by their ability but by their personal relationship with Ian.
I'm just trying to imagine how it is for Ian. He has this thing that he does, that no one else in the world can do, he has millions of people watching his every move and an entire business to keep afloat. He's surrounded by people who he must rely on to get the job done but let's just say one of those people is pissing him off. Maybe for no good reason other than they just don't gel personally anymore. What's Ian gonna do? Ignore it because he's a nice guy?
Its not easy to replace a member of a band, especially one performing the often complicated arrangements of Ian's music, let alone the commitments that band must be under. Switching out a member is risky. You gotta go back to rehearsal, you gotta hope the new guy is accepted by the rest of the band, its a complicated dynamic and its rare to get a group of guys functioning perfectly without any weak links. I actually think the current band is a band that Ian is happy with and as a result its given us a return to form and two new studio albums and a proper stage show. But considering when I saw the band last month and the only change in that band was Martin compared to when I saw them in 2011, one can conclude that it was an issue between Ian and Martin that was at the heart of the most dullest period in Ian's career the last ten years of no new albums and a never ending best of tour.
Clearly Ian struggled on and on for a decade or more with Martin out of loyalty, fear and change. But change did come eventually and its worked out.
I'm not taking a dig at Martin, I'd have him back in a flash but a musical collaboration is as as much about the personal relationship as it is about the music.

I think you nailed it Mix in terms of what happened between Ian and Martin but that's not what this is about.  This is about Ian changing his name to Jethro Tull.    

[TM]

Jun 20, 2014 7:01:35 GMT -5 Mix said:

Jun 19, 2014 16:38:52 GMT -5 TM said:

I'm not sure if I made this public before, but prior to the release of Martin's Away With Words I had a conversion with him about the split amongst other things.  The one thing Martin said that stuck with me is that he knew he would become forgotten, just like Barrie, John, and David.

Forgotten by who? People who think Ian's name is Jethro? Maybe so but for the true fans, we're still talking about Barrie, John and David.
Martin, above all the people who have worked with Ian has been there the longest. Whatever Ian does in his remaining years, no matter how good it may be, will never stand up to classic Tull 70's works. Martin was present then and all the way up to 2011. Nothing can take that away from him.
And even in 50 years time when people are listening to the music, it will be clear to anyone who is truly interested that Martin's contribution was huge. His legacy is just fine.

Where I have sympathy for Martin is he's gone from playing 2000 seater plus venues with crew and comforts and a nice salary to playing 200-300 seater clubs and probably making a loss or at the very best only breaking even. That must be quite a change to get your head round though Martin clearly loves to play and he's lucky enough not to need the money. I thought Away With Words was a masterpiece and I was very disappointed by the reaction of some fans, especially people like Dave Rees. Martin needed to make that album and he should have got more support.
I still think there is a possibility of Ian and Martin working together but it may be a while off and it all depends if their health holds up.
I've got a feeling that Ian is in the final stages of his touring career.

I don't know, I didn't ask him to clarify.  Perhaps he meant that just as the big split was a big deal back then, everyone forgot about and Tull moved on.  Just like Ian has now moved on without Martin and Doane.

But I don't feel bad for Martin because I seem him as being just as responsible for the split as Ian.