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Post by Nonfatman on Jan 16, 2010 20:45:10 GMT -5
As I mentioned in Tullite's real-life Tull thread, I was a classics major in college and took a course in Latin lyric poetry, in which we studied Lucretius, Horace and, most importantly, Catullus! He lived in the time of the late Roman Republic, during Caesar's lifetime, if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, he wrote a book of odes notable for their sexuality and bawdy lyrics, not unlike our own Tull. In fact, in one particularly filthy poem that Catullus wrote, which he directed at two of his rivals for the attentions of his love interest, Lesbia, he starts the poem off by telling them what he intends to do to them...."Pedicabo et irrumabo." I don't even want to tell you what that means! Actually, yes, I do. Basically, it was intended as a mockery of their taunts accusing him of being wimpy and effeminate, and so with those words he basically tells them he's going to do them in the mouth and in the ass! Links to the translations shall follow. I've seen translations that put it gently, and other translations that are quite literal and explicit. Here is the wikipedia link. Catullus shocked his readers with his graphic sexual writing style, which Cicero condemned because he considered it amoral. Like our Ian has often done with his lyrics, this "ancient Ian" also caused quite a stir! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catullus Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on Jan 16, 2010 21:11:30 GMT -5
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Post by Nonfatman on Jan 16, 2010 21:51:32 GMT -5
I like this modern translation of Catullus's sixteenth ode a lot better. It comes with a graphic lyric warning which states "this poem contains references to the digestive and reproductive systems that may give offense" (!), and the translator actually coins a new word which contains a built-in political reference! "I'll sodomize and clintonize you, oral Aurelius and anal Furius" First the warning: www.vroma.org/~hwalker/VRomaCatullus/016.htmlNow the line by line translation: www.vroma.org/~hwalker/VRomaCatullus/016x.htmlYou've gotta love those crazy Romans! Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on Jan 16, 2010 22:20:30 GMT -5
Holy shit...I just logged off and then suddenly realized that the name Catullus contains the words cat and tull.....and Ian loves cats! Now that's a little scary!
Jeff
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Tullite
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
Posts: 174
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Post by Tullite on Jan 20, 2010 15:25:17 GMT -5
all these tull meanings are scarey !! theres more to this than meets the eye !!
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Post by Nonfatman on Jan 21, 2010 14:09:27 GMT -5
all these tull meanings are scarey !! theres more to this than meets the eye !! The parallels between Catullus and Ian (apart from the cat/tull thing I pointed out) are many: 1. Catullus was a sensitive artist/poet, as is Ian Anderson. 2. Catullus, who died when he was only 30, had little regard for the established order of his time, which was reflected in his poetry. The same is true of Anderson, as reflected by the lyrics to Aqualung and Brick, both written when he was in his twenties. 3. Both wrote poems and songs about unrequited love, from a male perspective. For instance, the obsessed and brooding male, who was dumped by his woman in Teacher, strongly resembles Catullus himself! 4. Both are known for bawdy, and at times, quite shocking and controversial, verse. Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on Jan 21, 2010 14:16:03 GMT -5
Check out this translation of Catullus's fifth ode, which could almost be a composite of Wondering Aloud, Just Trying to Be, Black Sunday and Aqualung, right down to the "snot is running down his nose" reference! brandonbrown.blogspot.com/2009/08/talking-points-1_26.htmlNote that although there is one rather filthy part of the translation that suggests the writer is perhaps a woman, that is not the case, as the commentary which follows the translation explains. Jeff P.S. More Catullus to follow! |
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Tullite
Ethnic Piano Accordian-ist
Posts: 174
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Post by Tullite on Jan 22, 2010 15:52:51 GMT -5
hhhmmmm, very deep and interesting , i am gonna look out for more !!
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Post by Nonfatman on Jan 29, 2010 12:39:18 GMT -5
Catullus wrote of sparrows too, and also of mourning the loss of a pet! Although this is purely speculation since I've never read anything to suggest this, I believe Ian must know of Catullus's poetry, and must have been influenced in part by him. His next solo album should be putting Catullus's words to music. I can see it now.....Jethro Catullus! Catullus's ode to his lady's sparrow: www.vroma.org/~hwalker/VRomaCatullus/002.htmlAnd this one, mourning the loss of the sparrow, sounds so similar to My Old Black Cat, that it's a little scary: www.vroma.org/~hwalker/VRomaCatullus/003.htmlAnd, just like our modern Jethro Tull, ancient Catullus sang of ships and riotous seas as well: www.vroma.org/~hwalker/VRomaCatullus/004.htmlJeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on May 13, 2010 14:28:04 GMT -5
Take a look at the 32nd Ode of Catullus. Click through the graphic lyric warning (!) and you will see his horny entreaty to his lover, Ipsitilla, to have "nine non-stop bouts of sex" with him. The warning that precedes the poem: www.vroma.org/~hwalker/VRomaCatullus/032.htmlThe poem, in Latin and English: www.vroma.org/~hwalker/VRomaCatullus/032x.htmlAnd did you notice the last line, where he says "I am boring a hole through my cloak and tunic." Sound just like the "I'm tight against the seam" line from Velvet Green! I am telling you that the connection between Catullus and Tull is real! But as happily lewd as Tull lyrics sometimes are, this ancient Roman-ian would make even our own Ian blush, as we shall soon see in some other examples of Catullus' poetry as this thread continues to develop! Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on May 13, 2010 14:56:18 GMT -5
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Post by Nonfatman on May 13, 2010 15:06:29 GMT -5
For more on the 'pedicabo et irrumabo' opening to Catullus's 16th ode (cited earlier in this thread), see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catullus_16As the wikipedia entry points out, it is "one of the filthiest expressions ever written in Latin — or in any other language, for that matter." Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on May 13, 2010 15:19:56 GMT -5
By clicking on the below link, you can listen to MP3s of Catullus's 51st ode sung in English, with an opening that sounds exactly like Secret Language of Birds, and Latin, with accompanying guitar, flute and chorus! ablemedia.com/ctcweb/consortium/catullusguide3.htmlThere is also an interesting explanation of poem's subject, which is essentially a comparison of Greek lyric poets like Sappho, and the work of the later Roman lyric poets, including Catullus, who were influenced by Sappho. This is one his clean ones, so no graphic lyric warnings are needed! Jeff |
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Post by TM on May 13, 2010 16:28:44 GMT -5
Current day rappers have nothing on this guy!  |
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Post by Nonfatman on Apr 6, 2014 10:14:42 GMT -5
With Ian now writing lyrics like 'Old Corinium Dubunnorum Durovernum Cantiacorum' on an album called Homo Erraticus, which includes songs entitled Tripudium Ad Bellum, Puer Ferox Adventus, Meliora Sequamur and Per Errationes Ad Astra, I think it is safe to say that I was definitely onto something when I started this thread likening Ian to his ancient predecessor, the Roman lyric poet whose name just happened to be Catullus!    Jeff |
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Post by TM on Apr 8, 2014 18:48:52 GMT -5
With Ian now writing lyrics like 'Old Corinium Dubunnorum Durovernum Cantiacorum' on an album called Homo Erraticus, which includes songs entitled Tripudium Ad Bellum, Puer Ferox Adventus, Meliora Sequamur and Per Errationes Ad Astra, I think it is safe to say that I was definitely onto something when I started this thread likening Ian to his ancient predecessor, the Roman lyric poet whose name just happened to be Catullus! Jeff While the album title certainly seems to be a double entendre, the subject matter appears to be very straight forward. But we'll have to wait for the lyrics to be sure. |
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Stuff your gobs?! That's an interesting way of putting it!
