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Post by TM on May 31, 2010 21:40:24 GMT -5
Hi, Dave, thanks for posting. I want you to know that there is a tremendous amount of praise for Ian here, not only for his art, but also for the way he donates to many charitible causes, helps budding musicians and is sometimes, though not always, quite gracious with the fans. We even have a thread here entitled 'Ian the Good.' But lately he has been doing a hell of a lot of America bashing, and I am not just talking about his criticism of supposedly unruly, drunken American fans, which you attribute to his sense of humor, and maybe you are right about that. What bothers me much more is his contant bashing of this country's policies. Just look at this excerpt from a recent interview: www.pennyblackmusic.co.uk/MagSitePages/Article.aspx?id=5522Ian was asked the following question: " I know that you did a five- city tour of India and that during that time there was a terrorist attack on Mumbai. You performed a benefit concert to raise money for the victims. Did that experience intensify your feelings about the culture?" As he is often prone to do, he gave a long-winded pontificating reply -- too lengthy to reprint here -- that had nothing to do with what was asked. Instead, he used it as another opportunity to bash America, to launch yet another anti-Bush, anti-Blair screed, and to make idiotic comparsions between the deliberate terrorist attack in Mumbai and the civilian casualties caused by American and British bombings of Nazi Germany during WWII, which he referred to as "a Holocaust." Frankly, I found his comparison obscene on several different levels. I greatly admire the work of Ian Anderson, and I do believe he is a musical and songwriting genius, but at the same time I have some mixed feelings about him, based upon some of the things I have seen him do, and some of the things he has said in interviews, and I disagree with his views. Those mixed feelings do not affect my feelings about his work, and I am able to separate the two. Jeff I think we see here a cultural difference between the USA and the UK and indeed Europe as a whole. The British people are still very unhappy that it was taken into a war based on false evidence. The Blair/Bush party was a dark chapter and Ian Anderson is just expressing what most British people think. [/size]The Iraq war was a big mistake and most folks this side of the pond don't want to let it go. My concern is you taking criticisms of Bush and his foreign policy as attacks on your country. I'm saddened that you are not feeling shame for what your leaders did in the same way the British people feel shame for what Blair did.[/quote] While Bush implored Saddam to comply with the UN Resolutions Ian was on tour making jokes that Saddam's actions were placing Bush between "I-raq and a hard place." But of course now he's the king of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks.  |
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Post by TM on May 31, 2010 21:46:07 GMT -5
I'm actually quite pleased as well that a musician is able to express his opinions without a bevy of marketing people trying to shut him up for the greater good of the product. I'm just suprised at the Anderson negativity. Has this been going on with US fans for a while? Ian has been pissing and moaning about US audiences since the Thick As A Brick Tour in '72. Ian , admittedly, said 'you haven't made it until , you've made it in the US.' And also said that the financial support of countries like the USA , allows them to tour more obscure regions. So, hypocritically, he considers the US a necessary evil. There is almost nothing I would like to hear less than any liberal minded artist preaching about politics while I'm there for entertainment. My advice to Mr. A. would be to let his US passport expire , never release another recording (his decision) and let 'Old Glory' slap him on the ass on the way out the door. Exactly. What was that shit he was shoveling not too long ago about being hassled at US airports because of his beard?  I'm with you Danno, IA needs to quit milking the US fans and whining about us already. That's grown old. |
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Post by Nonfatman on May 31, 2010 22:35:29 GMT -5
Mix, you totally missed the point that I was making. Ian's got a right to his views, whether I agree with them or not. But my point was that in the pennyblack interview, he went out of his way to bash America when the question did not call for it. And he did not just bash Bush, by the way, but also the allied bombings of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan during wartime, comparing that, in an obscene fashion, to the terrorists attacks in Mumbai. He even went so far as to portray the Germans as victims of a "Holocaust" rather than the perpetrators of one. I found that quite detestable.
The question did not call for any of that. He was not asked about his opinions about Bush, Blair, Truman, WWII, etc. The interviewer was simply asking him whether the bombings in Mumbai intensifed his feelings about the Indian people and culture. He wanted to know whether Ian felt a closer kinship toward, and affinity with, the city and it's people since he was actually in India when the bombings occurred.
But instead of simply answering the question that was asked, Ian used it as a springboard to give a long-winded rambling attack against not just Bush, but America's wartime policies 60 fucking years ago, when we were engaged in a war with two of the most despicable -- if not the most despicable -- regimes in the history of mankind. (Saddam's regime would probably rank third or fourth on the list.)
As for the substance of what he was saying, I disagree with that as well. This country was going to war with Iraq, and it was going to happen even if Gore won the 2000 election, and even if 9/11 never happened. The ship of state had been turning in that direction for the last several years of the Clinton Administration. There is a something called the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, where the U.S. Congress, with overwhelming bipartisan support, passed legislation making it the official foreign policy of the United States to effect regime change in Iraq. The reasons given were many, including the belief that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction, but also a whole host of atrocities committed by that regime, not to mention all the brutal wars it started, against Iran (resulting in a million deaths), against Kuwait (killing, pillaging and raping the Kuwaitis); launching an unprovoked attack of Scud missiles against Israel; gassing the Kurds, etc., etc.
You may have forgotten this, but in 1998 President Clinton ordered a four day bombing raid of Iraq because Iraq was violating the terms of the ceasefire agreement it signed in 1991, violating the no-fly zone, once again amassing troops on the Kuwaiti border, etc., etc. Wars never just start on a dime. There is always a long buildup. In the case of Iraq, the buildup started under Clinton and continued under Bush.
Bush critics do not like to hear this, but when Bush took office regime change in Iraq was already the offical foreign policy of this country, as passed by both houses of Congress and signed into law by President Clinton. As the chief of the executive branch, Bush took an oath to faithfully execute the laws of the land, one of which was to change the regime in Iraq. Google the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, and you can read all about it.
On top of his misguided criticism of this country's actions in various wars, Ian has been bashing American audiences for 35 years, complaining they make too much noise, get high, don't return to their seats soon enough after an intermission, etc., etc. Most recently he has expressed his disdain for Americans who displayed the flag after 9/11, as a symbol of national unity and mourning. And even more recently he criticized our security measures at airports, and stated that when his U.S. visa expires this year, he's not going to renew it.
What are we supposed to think?
Jeff
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Cousin Jack
One of the Youngest of the Family
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Post by Cousin Jack on Jun 1, 2010 1:38:46 GMT -5
Ian has been pissing and moaning about US audiences since the Thick As A Brick Tour in '72. Ian , admittedly, said 'you haven't made it until , you've made it in the US.' And also said that the financial support of countries like the USA , allows them to tour more obscure regions. So, hypocritically, he considers the US a necessary evil. There is almost nothing I would like to hear less than any liberal minded artist preaching about politics while I'm there for entertainment. My advice to Mr. A. would be to let his US passport expire , never release another recording (his decision) and let 'Old Glory' slap him on the ass on the way out the door. Exactly. What was that shit he was shoveling not too long ago about being hassled at US airports because of his beard? I'm with you Danno, IA needs to quit milking the US fans and whining about us already. That's grown old. em possibly a joke??  I have heard before of this anti Anderson rhetoric from some of US 'fans' from some blokes that have been following Tull in greater depth than I have and they are of the opinion that it comes down to basically money money money. The US culture values money to an even greater extent than we do however when it comes to questioning why he keeps going when is voice isn't the same or why he doesn't make new albums it seems to boil down to what he owes us. Imo he owes his fans zilch and the fact he still provides a concert which I see most of you are going to watch then he's not given up on doing what the f*** we all want - providing entertainment. |
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Post by Mix on Jun 1, 2010 3:52:03 GMT -5
Sorry Jeff, all I was trying to say is regarding Blair and Bush Ian is expressing what most British people think. Its still a hot topic over here that drums up quite a lot of passion and whether it was called for or not, Ian clearly had to vent.
Having said that, if Ian is so offensive why are so many of you guys still buying tickets to his shows?
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Mikeytull
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 62
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Post by Mikeytull on Jun 1, 2010 5:16:02 GMT -5
What a shame there's not going to any new Cd's or full length releases in the near future. Ian does seem to have hit a creative wall. I'm sure if groups like Uriah Heep, kiss etc can release new albums why can't Tull. I've heard the two new songs( princess / horses) twice at gigs and liked them, why can't they be recorded? As for Ian's other comments, he has always been a bit "different" and done his own thing and said what he likes. You can love the music of Tull without particularly liking the man. I say don't take it so seriously . Enjoy and peace
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Post by Dan on Jun 1, 2010 8:17:15 GMT -5
Sorry Jeff, all I was trying to say is regarding Blair and Bush Ian is expressing what most British people think. Its still a hot topic over here that drums up quite a lot of passion and whether it was called for or not, Ian clearly had to vent. Having said that, if Ian is so offensive why are so many of you guys still buying tickets to his shows? I'm not going but if I did, it would be because I'm such a lover of accordian music. Dan |
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Post by Nonfatman on Jun 1, 2010 10:41:23 GMT -5
Sorry Jeff, all I was trying to say is regarding Blair and Bush Ian is expressing what most British people think. Its still a hot topic over here that drums up quite a lot of passion and whether it was called for or not, Ian clearly had to vent. Having said that, if Ian is so offensive why are so many of you guys still buying tickets to his shows? Well, first of all, I am able to separate my mixed or even negative feelings about some of his public statements and political views, from my very strong positive feelings toward his music and lyrics. And I still do enjoy most Tull and IA shows despite his current vocal limitations, and despite the absence of new music, but if it turns out that he never releases any new recorded music, I very well may stop attending his shows. But it will be on that basis alone. As Bluehare pointed out, none of us know him personally, but we can form certain judgments based upon what he says in interviews and how he treats the fans. With respect to the latter, I have seen both the good and the bad, but he was friendly enough on three out of the four occasions when I met him. I never said that his remarks were "so offensive," but what I did say is that I am bothered by what appears to be certain anti-American sentiments that he holds, based upon his many public criticisms of Americans and American policies. On the other hand, some of what he says I do agree with, particularly in regard to his environmental concerns, plus I like the fact that he gives to charitable causes and helps aspiring musicians. And, after all is said and done, and despite his sometimes surly behavior, I think deep down he is a sensitive and spiritual soul. He has to be in order to write such beautiful lyrics. The relationship between an artist and his or her most devoted fans is a complex one, almost like a marriage in some ways. They sometimes do things that piss you off, but you still love them. I think Ian would be the first to agree with that statement, and I think it works both ways. When you have followed a musician or band for so long as closely as we all have, throughout many different stages of our lives, I think it's only natural to develop some mixed feelings toward the artist, but it doesn't change how you feel about the art. Jeff |
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Post by Nonfatman on Jun 1, 2010 10:50:00 GMT -5
What a shame there's not going to any new Cd's or full length releases in the near future. Ian does seem to have hit a creative wall. I'm sure if groups like Uriah Heep, kiss etc can release new albums why can't Tull. I've heard the two new songs( princess / horses) twice at gigs and liked them, why can't they be recorded? As for Ian's other comments, he has always been a bit "different" and done his own thing and said what he likes. You can love the music of Tull without particularly liking the man. I say don't take it so seriously . Enjoy and peace It is a indeed shame, Mike. I'm not sure whether it's that his creativity has waned, or whether it's just a question of the money for him, but either way it's too bad. And there is a lot to be said for not taking everything that he says and does so seriously, which is the point that Tullist Ray and Cousin Jack have also made. If only there were a new album to enjoy! Jeff |
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Mikeytull
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 62
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Post by Mikeytull on Jun 1, 2010 11:54:54 GMT -5
Surely it can't be money. 40 plus years in the music biz he must b loaded. 60 million records sold. The majority of which he has sole writing credits for. That's alot of cash. Whatever it is, a new record would be welcome (in my house).  |
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Post by TM on Jun 1, 2010 16:00:55 GMT -5
Exactly. What was that shit he was shoveling not too long ago about being hassled at US airports because of his beard? I'm with you Danno, IA needs to quit milking the US fans and whining about us already. That's grown old. em possibly a joke?? No, this was not joke. Why guess at something you obviously have no knowledge of and then roll your eyes? I have heard before of this anti Anderson rhetoric from some of US 'fans' from some blokes that have been following Tull in greater depth than I have and they are of the opinion that it comes down to basically money money money. The US culture values money to an even greater extent than we do however when it comes to questioning why he keeps going when is voice isn't the same or why he doesn't make new albums it seems to boil down to what he owes us. Imo he owes his fans zilch and the fact he still provides a concert which I see most of you are going to watch then he's not given up on doing what the f*** we all want - providing entertainment. There are some valid arguments as to owing the fans something. Number one, He owes it to those spending their hard earned cash to be able to actually sing. That is after all the primary reason people are going to see them. Next, he needs to deliver on his promises. On this current tour for instance, he promised rare tracks and new tracks which was pure BS - at least in the beginning. So as I see it there's more to it then a new album or a changed voice as you describe it. He's been rambling on about releasing a few MP3's here and there for what, a decade now? It's time for the talk to stop. And finally, speaking of money, what do you think the chances are that money is the reason Tull hasn't made a new record in all this time? If Ian could get a decent record deal, you think he wouldn't jump at it?  |
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Post by TM on Jun 1, 2010 16:02:01 GMT -5
Sorry Jeff, all I was trying to say is regarding Blair and Bush Ian is expressing what most British people think. Its still a hot topic over here that drums up quite a lot of passion and whether it was called for or not, Ian clearly had to vent. Having said that, if Ian is so offensive why are so many of you guys still buying tickets to his shows? I'm not going but if I did, it would be because I'm such a lover of accordian music. Dan ;D |
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Post by TM on Jun 1, 2010 16:06:34 GMT -5
Sorry Jeff, all I was trying to say is regarding Blair and Bush Ian is expressing what most British people think. Its still a hot topic over here that drums up quite a lot of passion and whether it was called for or not, Ian clearly had to vent. Having said that, if Ian is so offensive why are so many of you guys still buying tickets to his shows? Well, first of all, I am able to separate my mixed or even negative feelings about some of his public statements and political views, from my very strong positive feelings toward his music and lyrics. And I still do enjoy most Tull and IA shows despite his current vocal limitations, and despite the absence of new music, but if it turns out that he never releases any new recorded music, I very well may stop attending his shows. But it will be on that basis alone. As Bluehare pointed out, none of us know him personally, but we can form certain judgments based upon what he says in interviews and how he treats the fans. With respect to the latter, I have seen both the good and the bad, but he was friendly enough on three out of the four occasions when I met him. I never said that his remarks were "so offensive," but what I did say is that I am bothered by what appears to be certain anti-American sentiments that he holds, based upon his many public criticisms of Americans and American policies. On the other hand, some of what he says I do agree with, particularly in regard to his environmental concerns, plus I like the fact that he gives to charitable causes and helps aspiring musicians. And, after all is said and done, and despite his sometimes surly behavior, I think deep down he is a sensitive and spiritual soul. He has to be in order to write such beautiful lyrics. The relationship between an artist and his or her most devoted fans is a complex one, almost like a marriage in some ways. They sometimes do things that piss you off, but you still love them. I think Ian would be the first to agree with that statement, and I think it works both ways. When you have followed a musician or band for so long as closely as we all have, throughout many different stages of our lives, I think it's only natural to develop some mixed feelings toward the artist, but it doesn't change how you feel about the art. Jeff I think you make some great points here Jeff. My feelings for the man have changed over the years, but not his music. I still love the music. |
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