Music or Lyrics?

[TM]

Please make your selection and give your reason as well.

For me, it's always been the music first and if I like the lyrics it's just a bonus.

[Mothfairy]

I can't decide. Both, when just right, have a synergistic effect. APP and of course Moths just comes to mind. I guess I'd say music because if someone rapped APP to me I may not be as impressed. But it's like his voice is music, it is a very important instrument used in the blank canvas of silence that a musician paints their picture upon.

[Morthoron]

Apr 13, 2013 13:53:02 GMT -5 Mothfairy said:

I can't decide. Both, when just right, have a synergistic effect. APP and of course Moths just comes to mind. I guess I'd say music because if someone rapped APP to me I may not be as impressed. But it's like his voice is music, it is a very important instrument used in the blank canvas of silence that a musician paints their picture upon.

I agree with Moth. But I will say that great lyrics cannot overcome bad music, yet there are plenty of songs with banal lyrics (please see the entire Led Zeppelin discography) that are still great songs. Still, when both the lyrics and music are right on the song becomes transcendent. As in any number of Tull works, like the entire Minstrel in the Gallery album, for instance, or A Passion Play:

Such a sense of glowing in the aftermath
ripe with rich attainments all imagined
sad misdeeds in disarray
the sore thumb screams aloud,
echoing out of the Passion Play.
All the old familiar choruses come crowding in a different key:
Melodies decaying in sweet dissonance.
There was a rush along the Fulham Road
into the Ever-passion Play.

Very few rock composers have the wherewithal to write something like that. If any bloody one at all.

[Mothfairy]

I thought about what I had said and I wanted to make sure it was known that I understand there's a difference between voice and lyrics. Would I like APP if it was same music, same singer, different lyrics? A very good possibility. But APP, different music? Maybe but less likely, who knows. It is definitely how it's conveyed.

I know this isn't about 'which album is best?' But APP is pure poetry. I know there's some who consider it a very tough listen but hey, we're all different.

[Heathcliffe]

For me it's both - when they come together as brilliantly as they do so often in Ian Andersons compositons it contibutes to Rock Musics best cannon of albums.

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2013 18:17:08 GMT -5 Heathcliffe said:

For me it's both - when they come together as brilliantly as they do so often in Ian Andersons compositons it contibutes to Rock Musics best cannon of albums.

And ride with us young bonny lass ---
with the angels of the night.
Crack wind clatter --- flesh rein bite on an out-size
unicorn.
Rough-shod winging sky blue flight on a cold wind
to Valhalla.
And join with us please --- Valkyrie maidens cry
above the cold wind to Valhalla.
Break fast with the gods. Night angels serve
with ice-bound majesty.
Frozen flaking fish raw nerve ---
in a cup of silver liquid fire.
Moon jet brave beam split ceiling swerve and light
the old Valhalla.
Come join with us please --- Valkyrie maidens cry
above the cold wind to Valhalla.
The heroes rest upon the sighs of Thor's trusty
hand maidens.
Midnight lonely whisper cries,
``We're getting a bit short on heroes lately.''
Sword snap fright white pale goodbyes in the
desolation of Valhalla.
And join with us please --- Valkyrie maidens ride
empty-handed on the cold wind to Valhalla

[Mothfairy]

Yeah, see you're not going to just get that just anywhere. So music could be the most important, you can't dismiss the lyrics...I've heard or read people say that those who are fans are very intelligent and I'd have to add artistic as well...so maybe holding lyrics at a higher regard than maybe some other types of music. Maybe not, just a theory.

[Cecil the Sealion]

Music. Lyrics are 10% importance. No one would talk about Tulls lyrics if they weren't a rock band. We are listening to music. If Ian was only a Poet he'd barely be known

[Tommiebaby]

Music ALWAYS first for me. Especially with Tull. For instance, I always like to read what instruments are being played and LOVE when Ian played SAX on APP and WC. Plus, nowadays, to be honest, I'd rather hear all his shows on an instrumental basis as the music is so grat.

[Deleted]

Apr 13, 2013 13:53:02 GMT -5 Mothfairy said:

I can't decide. Both, when just right, have a synergistic effect. APP and of course Moths just comes to mind. I guess I'd say music because if someone rapped APP to me I may not be as impressed. But it's like his voice is music, it is a very important instrument used in the blank canvas of silence that a musician paints their picture upon.

lol... hip hop passion play? no thanks!

[Deleted]

Apr 14, 2013 5:45:42 GMT -5 Cecil the Sealion said:

Music. Lyrics are 10% importance. No one would talk about Tulls lyrics if they weren't a rock band. We are listening to music. If Ian was only a Poet he'd barely be known

My father worked with Brian Meyers to help promote this book and was also working with him to get a follow up published. Unfortunetly it never happend.

Meyers, Brian: To Be The Play. A Timely Meditation On The Creations And Performances Of Jethro Tull. Annapolis 1978. No ISBN.
(This is, according to the author, a "timely meditation on the creations
and performances of Jethro Tull" in the form of a dialogue between a young Tull fan
and a middle-aged professor of English Literature. The fan is trying to persuade the professor
that "Anderson is the strongest poet ever to appear in the entire Western Tradition",
supporting his argument referring to Harold Bloom's work of literary theory,
'The Anxiety of Influence', Nietzsche's 'The Birth of Tragedy' and William Blake's
'The Marriage of Heaven and Hell'.

[Deleted]

A departure from the topic but my copy did survive and is adorned with a few signatures.





but in answer to the question, I'd edge in music to the pole position, Ian's lyrics are 9 times out of 10 outstanding, a few make me cringe but not quite in that Led Zep 'squeeze my lemon' sense of cringeability, but it is the music that ties it all together rather nicely.

[Deleted]

Thats great Pat! what year did you get all those signatures I see Jefferys there.
Darin

[Tommiebaby]

Re: "Moths": When I used to tell non-Tull friends that I absolutely loved this particular song on Tull's album, they'd ask what's it called. I'd say "Moths". They'd say what a wild and unique title. What's it about? I'd say: moths.

[Mothfairy]

Apr 14, 2013 17:31:34 GMT -5 @quizzkid said:

A departure from the topic but my copy did survive and is adorned with a few signatures.





but in answer to the question, I'd edge in music to the pole position, Ian's lyrics are 9 times out of 10 outstanding, a few make me cringe but not quite in that Led Zep 'squeeze my lemon' sense of cringeability, but it is the music that ties it all together rather nicely.

Wow, neat, I didn't know about this book, so...learn something new every day!

For what it's worth, I am not really the poetry type either, but I do have one book that does get to me, it was a gift. Add some music and I'm more likely to listen to some poetry. ha.

[Deleted]

Apr 15, 2013 2:30:34 GMT -5 Mothfairy said:

Apr 14, 2013 17:31:34 GMT -5 @quizzkid said:

A departure from the topic but my copy did survive and is adorned with a few signatures.





but in answer to the question, I'd edge in music to the pole position, Ian's lyrics are 9 times out of 10 outstanding, a few make me cringe but not quite in that Led Zep 'squeeze my lemon' sense of cringeability, but it is the music that ties it all together rather nicely.

Wow, neat, I didn't know about this book, so...learn something new every day!

For what it's worth, I am not really the poetry type either, but I do have one book that does get to me, it was a gift. Add some music and I'm more likely to listen to some poetry. ha.

Great copy Pat. I have one battered copy left. With all the signatures this would go for a small fortune!

[Deleted]

The signatures have been added over the years, [there are others inside], The Jeffrey one was from one of the UK conventions as was John E's

still adding to it bit by bit!

[Tommiebaby]

Moths

[Deleted]

It is a tough call here, but I think the music brings you in and the lyrics get you hooked.. If I never heard the flute being played on Reasons For Waiting at impressionable age, I do not think I would of been hooked on Tull until a bit later, maybe 72ish.

Ian has always had some of the most intelligent and cleverly written lyrics in ALL of music, I do not think there are to many artist out there, that can write as thought provoking lyrics as Ian..

Also not many artists can write music as complex as Ian, some of Ian/Tull works are musical masterpieces..APP, TAAB come to mind right off the top of my head. But if you take it further how many Rock and Roll bands played such diverse music and musical styles, from blues to rock to classical and everything in between, and all the instruments that go with each style. All from Ian's mind and performed by Tull or IA band. The only one I could of done without was the over use of a certain "squeezey thing"

So Ian/Tull are a conundrum....an enigma of what draws you in...All I can say what ever it was that day I first heard them I am glad it did.

oh and by the way I still have my copy of To Be The Play albeit unsigned..lucky dog Pat. That is certainly very interesting Erin that your dad was helping Meyers with the book..

[Prompter]

It has to be both for me, I cannot fully appreciate one without the other. For example, I think that the lyrics on the Minstrel in the Gallery album are easily the finest poetry Ian Anderson has written, but the music (apart from the title track and "Cold Wind to Valhalla") is just mechanical sympho-rock plodding, and the album doesn't work for me. An opposite situation happens with most of Broadsword and the Beast.

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2013 15:00:09 GMT -5 Prompter said:

It has to be both for me, I cannot fully appreciate one without the other. For example, I think that the lyrics on the Minstrel in the Gallery album are easily the finest poetry Ian Anderson has written, but the music (apart from the title track and "Cold Wind to Valhalla") is just mechanical sympho-rock plodding, and the album doesn't work for me. An opposite situation happens with most of Broadsword and the Beast.

but Baker St. and Black Satin are Tull materpieces
I have a hard time finding much wrong with any Tull song from 68-79 though. I think I really love them all except maybe Too Old to Rock N Roll itself.. and even that is ok..

[Prompter]

I don't know, I've listened to that album over fifty times and it just doesn't work. I have a similar problem with a lot of music by composers such as Händel, Haydn and Gluck; it sounds just like a well-done homework. To me, listening to Tull's best is like listening to Mahler or Beethoven, an intense adrenaline ride from start to finish. I never got that from Minstrel.

[skytzo]

Apr 14, 2013 16:58:17 GMT -5 @tulltapes said:

My father worked with Brian Meyers to help promote this book and was also working with him to get a follow up published. Unfortunetly it never happend.

Meyers, Brian: To Be The Play. A Timely Meditation On The Creations And Performances Of Jethro Tull. Annapolis 1978. No ISBN.
(This is, according to the author, a "timely meditation on the creations
and performances of Jethro Tull" in the form of a dialogue between a young Tull fan
and a middle-aged professor of English Literature. The fan is trying to persuade the professor
that "Anderson is the strongest poet ever to appear in the entire Western Tradition",
supporting his argument referring to Harold Bloom's work of literary theory,
'The Anxiety of Influence', Nietzsche's 'The Birth of Tragedy' and William Blake's
'The Marriage of Heaven and Hell'.

Is this book even available anymore, or would I have to hope for a copy to pop up on eBay? My dad had a copy (he might still have it somewhere) and I read it when I was 19 or 20....I'd love to read it again because I know I would get much more out of it now.

[Deleted]

Apr 19, 2013 11:54:58 GMT -5 skytzo said:

Apr 14, 2013 16:58:17 GMT -5 @tulltapes said:

My father worked with Brian Meyers to help promote this book and was also working with him to get a follow up published. Unfortunetly it never happend.

Meyers, Brian: To Be The Play. A Timely Meditation On The Creations And Performances Of Jethro Tull. Annapolis 1978. No ISBN.
(This is, according to the author, a "timely meditation on the creations
and performances of Jethro Tull" in the form of a dialogue between a young Tull fan
and a middle-aged professor of English Literature. The fan is trying to persuade the professor
that "Anderson is the strongest poet ever to appear in the entire Western Tradition",
supporting his argument referring to Harold Bloom's work of literary theory,
'The Anxiety of Influence', Nietzsche's 'The Birth of Tragedy' and William Blake's
'The Marriage of Heaven and Hell'.

Is this book even available anymore, or would I have to hope for a copy to pop up on eBay? My dad had a copy (he might still have it somewhere) and I read it when I was 19 or 20....I'd love to read it again because I know I would get much more out of it now.

You'd be lucky to find one on ebay. They are long unavailable. I saw one about 5 yrs ago selling for around $150, so if you ever see one at an affordable price buy it! Although I heard there would be an e-version available someday. I tried to scan my copy at one point. Got through the first chapter until it started to fall apart so i quit. I just uploaded the first chapter scans onto an old blog site (i started but never did anythng with). The scans are a mess! So.. it's not pretty but if you're curious about the book you can read chapter one -"heavy horses"
tulltapes.blogspot.com/

[Deleted]

I dont think its a question of music OR lyrics necessarily. The music was what got me into it obviously, but it didnt take me long to see that there are some fantastic fantastic lyrics to be found.

I dont think my love for Tull would be as strong as it is (probably wouldnt be as much to talk about on this forum) if the lyrics were simplistic, but then again the music could stand alone.