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Mar 11, 2010 17:46:35 GMT -5
Post by Tommiebaby on Mar 11, 2010 17:46:35 GMT -5
Thanks, Jeff for your understanding words. I probably come across as so fuckin angry........But I AM so fuckin angry. And with good reason. Thanx for ur accurate depiction of who/what I truly am in relation to my long history with Tull. I've just had it with Ian the asshole (that's right...ass-hole). The man def has some serious "head" issues and I'm sick of Barre, too, that he continues to play w/him. It really does me no good to continue posting cuz I know nothing's ever gonna change w/him and i LOATHE being part of discussions about a band that is truly "history". They are nothing but an oldies band & a pretty bad one at that. So me bids adieu, esp to you, Jeff. As Popeye said : " I tooks all I can stand & I cant stands no more!" haha. I'd rather go back to discussion boards that are about musicians who truly matter, are as great CURRENTLY as they were 40 yrs. ago, put out relevant, new, current stuff and who treat their long-time fans well....not like shit! Like the boards re: Neil Young, the Cure, Jack Bruce, the Stones, etc. All of whom, incidentally, are OLDER than Ian. Bye Bye
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Mar 11, 2010 18:23:02 GMT -5
Post by Tommiebaby on Mar 11, 2010 18:23:02 GMT -5
Oh and just to remind all of youse: I have everything Ian/ Tull ever put our. Respected & admired even the stuff that was not popular (UW, WIL, etc.) And will always have great memories of all the shows I've seen live:
Passion tour Aug 73 -twice War Child tour Spring 1975- FOUR times Shea-- Summer 76 Songs...- Jan 77 two nites @ Radio City.......before the album was released and Sept 77 two more nites @ MSG
HH- MSG Oct 1978 Storm- MSG twice Sept 79
A- Nassau Col & MSG '80 ( was out of the country '81-'83, so no Broadsword)
UW - Fall, '84- THREE nites......Nassau or Meadsowlands twice & Capitol Theatre ? in NJ once Crest- Fall. '87-2 nites Nassau (or Meadowlands?) Summer of '88 (20 yrs tour).. twice...The Pier in NYC and Jones Beatch Rock Is..Fall '89...twice....Meadowlands? Catfish.. '91....twice... the Theatre @ MSG and Nassau A Little Lite.....2 times...Beacon Summer '93... Great Woods in Mass. Divinities. '95.....Beacon Roots....twice.Fall '95.......Beacon Summers of '96.'97' 4-5 times Jones, GSAC, the E Center in NJ Dot Com 1999---three times Summers of 2000, 2002..........5-6 times.Jones, PNCP, Harborlites in Boston, Ives Cntr. in Conn Rubbing Elbows (about 5-6 times.I musta been either nuts or masochistic) Keswick 2 times. Town Hall, Palace Theatre, etc. Tull- 2003,'04,(?) Palace Theatre 2-3 times, Stamford, Conn & ? Aqualung Live- 2005 (?) 2 nites- Carnegie Hall Rose Theatre of Avery Fisher Hall .....2006 (?) Prudenntial Cntr, NJ, 2007..........YECH! DRECK! ( We left after the first half......Jeff nauseates to that one, too) Summer 2008....2 times.....Jones and Mohegan Sun Oct 2009- Beacon and more, imn between..cant recall.
Oh, and.....The Willie Porter Show ( featuring Martin Barre)...inside joke! 2004--BB King's ( which was supposed to be MB and his band, which was quite a refreshingly new band Martin had with him..............a great change................MB on guitar Doane Perry on drums Jon Noyce on bass Andy Giddings on keys Atta boy, Martin........that's the way to go solo and get away from that Tull line-up, eh?
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Mar 11, 2010 19:14:17 GMT -5
Post by Nonfatman on Mar 11, 2010 19:14:17 GMT -5
Thanks, Jeff for your understanding words. I probably come across as so fuckin angry........But I AM so fuckin angry. And with good reason. Thanx for ur accurate depiction of who/what I truly am in relation to my long history with Tull. I've just had it with Ian the asshole (that's right...ass-hole). The man def has some serious "head" issues and I'm sick of Barre, too, that he continues to play w/him. It really does me no good to continue posting cuz I know nothing's ever gonna change w/him and i LOATHE being part of discussions about a band that is truly "history". They are nothing but an oldies band & a pretty bad one at that. So me bids adieu, esp to you, Jeff. As Popeye said : " I tooks all I can stand & I cant stands no more!" haha. I'd rather go back to discussion boards that are about musicians who truly matter, are as great CURRENTLY as they were 40 yrs. ago, put out relevant, new, current stuff and who treat their long-time fans well....not like shit! Like the boards re: Neil Young, the Cure, Jack Bruce, the Stones, etc. All of whom, incidentally, are OLDER than Ian. Bye Bye Tommie you are right in all you say, about Tull and about Ian, and I am as angry as you are about Ian and his false advertising and constantly conflicting statements about a new album, and particularly his nasty-ass attitude in the March Record Collector interview. I, too, am not inclined to discuss Tull very much right now, and anything I post about them in the foreseeable future will likely be negative. Still, I hope you don't leave. Go to "off-topic", go to "Do You Still Remember", start threads on other musicians, sports, politics, world affairs, New York City, the Twin Towers, etc., etc. There are plenty of other things we can discuss, and I really wish you would stay. Jeff P.S. I sent you a couple of private messages, one before you bid adieu about another matter, and one, entitled 'Please Don't Go' after your farewell. It is important that you stay and continue to make your case loud and clear. I find your honesty refreshing, like a cold slap in the face to those who worship Ian Anderson.
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2010
Mar 11, 2010 19:21:18 GMT -5
Post by Nonfatman on Mar 11, 2010 19:21:18 GMT -5
Oh and just to remind all of youse: I have everything Ian/ Tull ever put our. Respected & admired even the stuff that was not popular (UW, WIL, etc.) And will always have great memories of all the shows I've seen live: Passion tour Aug 73 -twice War Child tour Spring 1975- FOUR times Shea-- Summer 76 Songs...- Jan 77 two nites @ Radio City.......before the album was released and Sept 77 two more nites @ MSG HH- MSG Oct 1978 Storm- MSG twice Sept 79 A- Nassau Col & MSG '80 ( was out of the country '81-'83, so no Broadsword) UW - Fall, '84- THREE nites......Nassau or Meadsowlands twice & Capitol Theatre ? in NJ once Crest- Fall. '87-2 nites Nassau (or Meadowlands?) Summer of '88 (20 yrs tour).. twice...The Pier in NYC and Jones Beatch Rock Is..Fall '89...twice....Meadowlands? Catfish.. '91....twice... the Theatre @ MSG and Nassau A Little Lite.....2 times...Beacon Summer '93... Great Woods in Mass. Divinities. '95.....Beacon Roots....twice.Fall '95.......Beacon Summers of '96.'97' 4-5 times Jones, GSAC, the E Center in NJ Dot Com 1999---three times Summers of 2000, 2002..........5-6 times.Jones, PNCP, Harborlites in Boston, Ives Cntr. in Conn Rubbing Elbows (about 5-6 times.I musta been either nuts or masochistic) Keswick 2 times. Town Hall, Palace Theatre, etc. Tull- 2003,'04,(?) Palace Theatre 2-3 times, Stamford, Conn & ? Aqualung Live- 2005 (?) 2 nites- Carnegie Hall Rose Theatre of Avery Fisher Hall .....2006 (?) Prudenntial Cntr, NJ, 2007..........YECH! DRECK! ( We left after the first half......Jeff nauseates to that one, too) Summer 2008....2 times.....Jones and Mohegan Sun Oct 2009- Beacon and more, imn between..cant recall. Oh, and.....The Willie Porter Show ( featuring Martin Barre)...inside joke! 2004--BB King's ( which was supposed to be MB and his band, which was quite a refreshingly new band Martin had with him..............a great change................MB on guitar Doane Perry on drums Jon Noyce on bass Andy Giddings on keys Atta boy, Martin........that's the way to go solo and get away from that Tull line-up, eh? Tommie, you started a few years before I did (I didn't see them live until 1977) but we have been to tons of the same shows, probably three-quarters of the shows you list above, I was there too. And you are right, 2007 NJPAC made me sick to my stomach, and it was so bad that I did not go to the NYC show a few days later. Hate to see you go, my friend. Hang out, we'll talk about other things. BTW, I think you might like that Grant Lee Phillips stuff I put up. Neil Young is one of his major influences. Jeff
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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2010
Mar 12, 2010 6:28:45 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 6:28:45 GMT -5
Tommie..... Hate to see you go, my friend. Hang out, we'll talk about other things. BTW, I think you might like that Grant Lee Phillips stuff I put up. Neil Young is one of his major influences. Jeff Tommie, stick around, you may be a bit too blunt at times, but you add a much needed dimension to any balanced discussion, and certainly another perspective on Tull, other bands and topics is needed at all times.
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Mar 12, 2010 7:51:23 GMT -5
Post by tootull on Mar 12, 2010 7:51:23 GMT -5
Jethro Tull comes to Liverpool's Philharmonic Hallwww.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-life-features/liverpool-arts/2010/03/12/jethro-tull-comes-to-liverpool-s-philharmonic-hall-92534-26011125/Jethro Tull comes to Liverpool's Philharmonic Hall Mar 12 2010 by Jade Wright, Liverpool “DO YOU know what happened this morning when I was in Waitrose with my wife?” asks Ian Anderson, with a chuckle. “Absolutely no-one asked for my autograph. And do you know why? Because it was like any other Friday morning. I’m about as far from being a celebrity as you can imagine, and that’s just how I like it.” But Ian, 62, the flute and voice behind the legendary Jethro Tull, has spent the last 42 years of his career being thrust repeatedly into the spotlight. He’s played more than 2,500 concerts in 40 countries, and along the way picked up a doctorate in literature from Heriot Watt University in Edinburgh, the Ivor Award for International Achievement in Music and, in the New Year Honours List 2008, an MBE for services to music. So what can we look forward to from Jethro Tull’s Philharmonic Hall concert? “If it’s a really spectacular night, you might see me die with my boots on,” he laughs again at the thought. “At my age, you need a paramedic. “You’ll get our greatest not quite hits, along with some newer music. We’re not just revelling in the nostalgia of it all, but there will always be the tunes that people know. “You can never be sure how people will respond to new music. We’re lucky at the Philharmonic. It has comfy seats and the audience come along to really listen to the music. “The venue has a lot of history and it sounds great. There’s something special about playing in the home of a permanent orchestra. You’re always aware that last night there was Mozart and Beethoven playing there.” Despite his huge successes in the music world, Ian doesn’t describe himself as a music lover. “I’ve never liked live music,” he shrugs. “I like the sound of silence or birds singing. If I’m on a long flight, I might listen to some acoustic music, maybe some Scandinavian folk or Seth Lakeman. “When I was growing up it was much harder to find good music. Websites make it much easier.” In his spare time, you’re unlikely to catch Ian living it up at showbiz parties. “I prefer to be alone,” he explains. “I’m rather a solitary person. “I can sit and watch news channels for hours – BBC, CNN, Fox. I like to hear all sides of the story. “I read all the newspapers. I travel by train to my concerts and I buy all the papers to read on the way. “The rest of the band and all the equipment goes by bus, but I always travel alone by train.” Thankfully, he doesn’t have to worry about missing the train after his Liverpool concert. “No, I stay over in the most anonymous hotel I can find,” he laughs. “I can’t abide the fancy places where the rock stars stay. Put me in somewhere plain and I’m much happier.”
JETHRO TULL play The Philharmonic Hall on Wednesday, March 31. Tickets, £25.50-£33.50, are available now 0151 709 3789.Jethro Tull: Ipswich's magical maestroswww.eveningstar.co.uk/content/eveningstar/blogs/edblog.aspx?PostURL=http%3A//www.eveningstar.co.uk/cs_es/cs/blogs/edblog/archive/2010/03/11/2033284.aspxLife’s a Long Song, is the prophetic title of a haunting tune from folk-rock legends Jethro Tull.
Living in the Past is another … but Ian Anderson and his merry musical band could never be accused of dwelling of the glories of yesteryear.
For more than 42 years, stretching magical music moments through six decades, the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s. 90’s. 00’s and now 10’s, 62-yearold Anderson and Co. continue to play to tens of thousands every year.
Last night at Ipswich Regent was no exception as a sell-out Ipswich throng was taken through a Jethro Tull masterclass – with Anderson and his axeman friend of all those years, Martin Lancelot Barre, in inspiring form.
They were, of course, back at one of the band’s favourite venues, where the Passion Play took place as the sixth concert of a 23-date tour.
There have been thousands of concerts, in dozens of countries, and Anderson reminded us that the band was in Mumbai, India, the day terrorists struck and killed hundreds and maimed many more.
A Jethro Tull charity ambulance is now on duty at Mumbai station – paid for by a Tull concert when the dust had settled and the dead and injured carried away.
The Ipswich audience loved the quality of a two-hour set when, for me, the highlight was a brilliant, moving, version of Budapest.
Other memorable tunes included Birthday Card at Christmas, Aqualung (of course) and Locomotive Breath, as the encore sensation … wholly appropriate on a night when steamer 70013 Oliver Cromwell roared through Suffolk and Ipswich.
Frontman Anderson is incredible – and still at the top of his game.
He is a great leader and although his singing may be a little strained at times, he remains the heart and spirit of Tull and his work on flute and guitar is outstanding.
He still is the prancing minstrel figure – although yesteryear’s cod-piece has now been banished to the wardrobe of history.
Tull have released 30 studio and live albums, selling more than 60million copies since first performing at London’s famous Marquee club.
They are maestros from another age, performing at the highest level today.
My group of music lovers, ex-Ipswich marketer Scott Dolling, Gav and Carrie from Felixstowe and myself had wonderful evening. posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:45 PM
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2010
Mar 12, 2010 10:06:58 GMT -5
Post by TM on Mar 12, 2010 10:06:58 GMT -5
Yes, we know why. Because you can't sing anymore.
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Tullist
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 63
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2010
Mar 12, 2010 10:58:54 GMT -5
Post by Tullist on Mar 12, 2010 10:58:54 GMT -5
like a cold slap in the face to those who worship Ian Anderson, o my am I curious as to who this refers to....If I had the tiniest inclination that this flat out accusation refers in any part to me, my brother you would find you have picked the wrong hombre to point your accusation stick at. I have also noticed the wanton use of the word syncophat towards people who do not hold the level of contempt for IA that a noted handful of observers do here. None of you know IA let us be very clear on that, yes I have met IA too, if I bother with an avatar here I may use the 83 Skye one with IA, but I suspect I could get banned, which seems to be a simple case of merely coming back with a different name. May I also say that some of the other observations I have read on here as regards alleged meeting with IA reek of unbelievability, particulary an alleged exchange between Tommie and IA, at best colored thru a decidedly jaded perception, and at worst a flat out lie. Or the one about IA hanging out with babes. Now IA has always preferred the attentions of women, not surprising when you consider things like the radio call in shows when several of the male callers are of a countenance that make me question if I have been misperceiving this band all along. And with Shona usually not far away, plus the old Jethro Dull observation, IA is not likely to be taking the tack with these ladies that other entertainers or myself might. I have also seen political observations on here that seem to be of a tea party flavor, do what u like, just know that u have a highly combustible alternate opinion around. The recent dodgy video brought responses that border and cross over the border into revelling in Ian's vocal problems, with a seething I told u so sentiment. Just know that there is a gentleman around, although possibly not online much longer or indeed with a roof over my head, whos tolerance for boorishness is at zero in heavy trading. Always be concerned of mf's who have nothing left to lose, and there are starting to be millions of us, and one of the first things we have our eye on is the tea party mentality in general, and the hideously over priveleged upper 2 per cent of this country thru whom these zealot foos knowingly or not support. Ever seen a graph of the middle class financial standing versus the upper 2 per cent of this country dating back to the mid fifties,(does the name Marie Antoinette ring any bells?) it will be enough to make a thinking person wretch and raise their fist and bar ingress and egress for limos attempting to leave Connecticut mansions for their priveleged helicopter ride to Manhattan. Beware the rage that has been ignited and best to keep that discussion on a political board. Having said all this I am known as a gentleman of the first calling and merely have the intent to fight back when I see observations of IA's character that veer so hideously into character assassanation, watch it. I have read a lifetimes worth of bile as regards assessments of his character from some few on here, and yes I have met some of these people who have worked with him too, but their or your observations do not make it so. Ever notice that IA says nothing in his own defense? My own meetings with IA indicate otherwise and as Jeff saw me mention on another board I also had an exchange with his old farm manager Ian Mackinnon during which he said "I could not imagine working for a finer gentleman." I imagine his sometimes associate Mikhail Gorbachev does not suffer fools gladly either, but likely with equanamity. Finally be grateful he is still here at all in 2010. And I have seen all tours since Apr 72 and for overall execution the period of 95 til now takes a backseat to none of the glory years, if you are of a different opinion I am ever so happy for u, but when u point an accusation stick at me or anyone else of an alternate opinion u have an enemy that u dont want to know about. I will give Tommie this, in Neil Young you have the old rocker who likely is performing at a level higher than any of them, ditto your mention of the very expensive but still highly vital Rolling Stones, I would add Jorma Kaukonen and Jack Casady, Robert Fripp, the various Grateful Dead aggregations, Fairport and Steeleye. the Allman Brothers, and doubtless others. I too want Tommie to stay around just know that there is an alternate Tommie here who will be holding the mirror up, address all humans with respect. yfrog.com/16ianandersonp
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Mar 12, 2010 11:42:17 GMT -5
Post by Nonfatman on Mar 12, 2010 11:42:17 GMT -5
Ray, my remark was certainly not aimed at you. What I was saying was that Tommie has a right to express himself freely even though what he says might upset others who feel Ian should never be criticized. The same is true of everyone who disagrees with Tommie, they too have a right to express themselves freely here.
I think Ian Anderson is a complex individual, who would be the first to admit that he can be cranky at times, and that he is a human being who has flaws like all of us. That being said, I do think he is a musical and songwriting genius, and is truly gifted and inspired. His music and words have meant so much to me over the years. But he is not a god, and even he himself is uncomfortable with that. And on a discussion forum, people should be allowed to criticize his performances, vocals, the conflicting statements he has recently made concerning a new album, etc. Believe me, though, it is with pain, not glee, that we do so. Moreover, while we have sometimes expressed criticism of some of his recent performances and statements he has made in interviews,, to be fair you would have to say that we also have expressed great praise and admiration for his work and his career. Also, look at a thread that I started entitled "Ian the Good." I have pointed out there, and in other places, his contributions to charitable causes, the many benefit concerts he has played, his willingness to help budding musicians, the fact that he employed a lot of people on Skye and was well-regarded as an employer in his fish-farming business, etc. And, on three of the four occasions I have met him, he was gracious enough and did agree to an autograph and photo. I have pointed all this out on the board.
But I and others have also been critical of certain things, and it just so happens you jumped aboard here at a particular time when many people feel disappointed about the current setlist, current state of his vocals and some of the comments he made in recent interviews.
Also, I am not sure if you are aware of this, but you also joined here only a week after there was a major incident of censorship at the Jethro Tull Fan Forum, where an entire thread was deleted because of critical comments made about the recent shows and about certain things IA said in an interview in the March 2010 edition of Record Collector magazine. (I left that board six months ago because of numerous other instances of censorship.) Several members there were quite upset about the latest incident of censorship on that board, because all they had done was express their views and opinions. So, if anything, my comment was directed against those on the other board who feel that Tull should never be criticized.
By the way, it was I who told the story about the first time we met IA backstage. It was after the Catfish show, during the time when he had gotten into amazing physical shape, and when we first entered the corridor, we did see a group of five or six great looking young women thronging around him in the hallway. I did not say anything other than that. And I never said he was hanging out with them, only that they were trying to talk to him, as other people, including my friend and I, were trying to do as well.
As far as politics are concerned, I am not tea-party person, nor am I even a Republican. But I did not like it when Ian expressed disdain for those who displayed the Amercian flag after 9/11, nor have I liked it when, over the years, he has made disparaging remarks about American audiences.
I honestly believe that people should have the right to speak, criticize and express themselves freely. I also do not think that IA would look favorably upon a discussion board that consisted of nothing but unfettered praise of him, because I think he really is uncomfortable with being put on a pedestal, and I would venture to say that he would probably agree with our approach, where freedom of speech is paramount.
I have invited you to make the pro-Ian case, to defend him vigorously, and to debate others who express criticism. That's what this should be about, and I want you to feel welcome here. I just hope that we can discuss things in a non-threatening manner and try to respect each other's opinions and speak to each other civilly, no matter how much we may disagree. Bear in mind though that each of us here are in agreement that Tull is our favorite band of all time.
Jeff
P.S. We also believe in having some fun here, so why not have a look at our Lyric Quiz and Album Wars threads, which you may be interested in.
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ash
Claghornist
Posts: 15
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2010
Mar 12, 2010 13:43:36 GMT -5
Post by ash on Mar 12, 2010 13:43:36 GMT -5
Thanks, Jeff for your understanding words. I probably come across as so fuckin angry........But I AM so fuckin angry. And with good reason. Thanx for ur accurate depiction of who/what I truly am in relation to my long history with Tull. I've just had it with Ian the asshole (that's right...ass-hole). The man def has some serious "head" issues and I'm sick of Barre, too, that he continues to play w/him. It really does me no good to continue posting cuz I know nothing's ever gonna change w/him and i LOATHE being part of discussions about a band that is truly "history". They are nothing but an oldies band & a pretty bad one at that. So me bids adieu, esp to you, Jeff. As Popeye said : " I tooks all I can stand & I cant stands no more!" haha. I'd rather go back to discussion boards that are about musicians who truly matter, are as great CURRENTLY as they were 40 yrs. ago, put out relevant, new, current stuff and who treat their long-time fans well....not like shit! Like the boards re: Neil Young, the Cure, Jack Bruce, the Stones, etc. All of whom, incidentally, are OLDER than Ian. Bye Bye www.anger-management-techniques.org/ ;D or take up playing the flute
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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2010
Mar 12, 2010 14:07:56 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 14:07:56 GMT -5
like a cold slap in the face to those who worship Ian Anderson, o my am I curious as to who this refers to....If I had the tiniest inclination that this flat out accusation refers in any part to me, my brother you would find you have picked the wrong hombre to point your accusation stick at. I have also noticed the wanton use of the word syncophat towards people who do not hold the level of contempt for IA that a noted handful of observers do here. None of you know IA let us be very clear on that, yes I have met IA too, if I bother with an avatar here I may use the 83 Skye one with IA, but I suspect I could get banned, which seems to be a simple case of merely coming back with a different name. May I also say that some of the other observations I have read on here as regards alleged meeting with IA reek of unbelievability, particulary an alleged exchange between Tommie and IA, at best colored thru a decidedly jaded perception, and at worst a flat out lie. Or the one about IA hanging out with babes. Now IA has always preferred the attentions of women, not surprising when you consider things like the radio call in shows when several of the male callers are of a countenance that make me question if I have been misperceiving this band all along. And with Shona usually not far away, plus the old Jethro Dull observation, IA is not likely to be taking the tack with these ladies that other entertainers or myself might. I have also seen political observations on here that seem to be of a tea party flavor, do what u like, just know that u have a highly combustible alternate opinion around. The recent dodgy video brought responses that border and cross over the border into revelling in Ian's vocal problems, with a seething I told u so sentiment. Just know that there is a gentleman around, although possibly not online much longer or indeed with a roof over my head, whos tolerance for boorishness is at zero in heavy trading. Always be concerned of mf's who have nothing left to lose, and there are starting to be millions of us, and one of the first things we have our eye on is the tea party mentality in general, and the hideously over priveleged upper 2 per cent of this country thru whom these zealot foos knowingly or not support. Ever seen a graph of the middle class financial standing versus the upper 2 per cent of this country dating back to the mid fifties,(does the name Marie Antoinette ring any bells?) it will be enough to make a thinking person wretch and raise their fist and bar ingress and egress for limos attempting to leave Connecticut mansions for their priveleged helicopter ride to Manhattan. Beware the rage that has been ignited and best to keep that discussion on a political board. Having said all this I am known as a gentleman of the first calling and merely have the intent to fight back when I see observations of IA's character that veer so hideously into character assassanation, watch it. I have read a lifetimes worth of bile as regards assessments of his character from some few on here, and yes I have met some of these people who have worked with him too, but their or your observations do not make it so. Ever notice that IA says nothing in his own defense? My own meetings with IA indicate otherwise and as Jeff saw me mention on another board I also had an exchange with his old farm manager Ian Mackinnon during which he said "I could not imagine working for a finer gentleman." I imagine his sometimes associate Mikhail Gorbachev does not suffer fools gladly either, but likely with equanamity. Finally be grateful he is still here at all in 2010. And I have seen all tours since Apr 72 and for overall execution the period of 95 til now takes a backseat to none of the glory years, if you are of a different opinion I am ever so happy for u, but when u point an accusation stick at me or anyone else of an alternate opinion u have an enemy that u dont want to know about. I will give Tommie this, in Neil Young you have the old rocker who likely is performing at a level higher than any of them, ditto your mention of the very expensive but still highly vital Rolling Stones, I would add Jorma Kaukonen and Jack Casady, Robert Fripp, the various Grateful Dead aggregations, Fairport and Steeleye. the Allman Brothers, and doubtless others. I too want Tommie to stay around just know that there is an alternate Tommie here who will be holding the mirror up, address all humans with respect. Tullist, I think I have been alone in the use of the term sycophant in recent posts and debates. Please give me a moment to explain why I used it. I have no issue with people posting that they are looking forward to a show, enjoyed a show, love a piece of work, think Ian's voice is fine, that the set lists are imaginative or even expansive. But, I do take issue when some people shout others down when they [whether it be me or anyone else]expresses an alternate opinion and accuses us of being Ian-haters, whingers and moaners and of not being Tull fans, wihout posing a valid contrary argument other than name-calling. I can fully accept that there isn't the need for outright verbal or personal abuse, and that a good reasoned argument is way better than name calling; but, I resorted to the use of the term sycophant because quite frankly no-one taking a different opinion to me and a few others was giving any credence to the alternate arguments we were putting forward. [Well, not until the latest video footage surfaced and then a few doubts appear to have crept into a few quarters]. I don't think I resorted to name calling but I did have a few people aiming jibes at me and my posts. I was also put out [see my post elsewhere on that board] in particular to the deletion of a whole thread which, in the main, contained valid argements from both sides. It was left on the forum, at the discreation of the moderators, for some time, and if I recall correctly even had them [or at least one of them] joining in at points. Yet despite making some reasoned points, I and a few other were singled out as "Ian-haters". Yes, of course I hate Ian, that's why I have spent countlees pounds and invested 40 years of my life following the band, - that alone demonstrates the sheer madness of their name-calling. I think a healthy forum is where everyones views are valid and where decent exchange of those views, with good moderation, allows those views and opinions to be heard and possibly influence: And by that I mean that maybe some of us with a more negative view could be cajoled with a few stories reminding us now and again of how good things are and how the band are still delivering in some areas. I make no blanket apologies to the type of people who I called sycophants, they are the ones who lambast others for taking a differing, yet equally valid view. I aimed the sycophant jibe at them for a reason, they are in my opinion more responsible for a lot the feuding that goes on in these sort of issues than peopelewho hold and try to express an "opposite" opinion. For those who seem to have taken it personally and who I needed to explain it to, I have explained it, and the choice as to whether to accept my reasoning lies with them. I hold no grudge or malice towards any Tull fan, either here or on any other board and I hope that here we can enter into a lively and spirited discussion about Tull and other topics, whether the views expressed are good, bad, indifferent, passionate or complacent. all the best.
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Tullist
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 63
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2010
Mar 12, 2010 14:32:11 GMT -5
Post by Tullist on Mar 12, 2010 14:32:11 GMT -5
Very cool Jeff, though I must admit Ian had my support as regards flag waving. Now there was a period extending maybe 10 days out of 911 when Ian would have been ill advised to make such a comment to me, when I think all Americans reason was seriously shot to hell, but in general I think that sentiment he expressed was correct. In fact I have often felt he would make a marvelous politician, though of course I am glad he did not choose that route, effective though I think he would be. Being in the financials I had my own 911 moment as I was talking to my own Bronx buddy who was on the 35th floor,(although I did not know that at the time and had no way of finding that out in the godawful week that followed) forget which tower, we were just babbling about the mid and late sixties Yankees, of whom i was a fan in their one period of sucking in the post 1920 era, the time of Horace Clarke, Dooley Womack, Jake Gibbs, and the highly potent but seriously disabled drawing card on number 7, Mickey Mantle. I ceased my Yankee loyalty in March of 69 when the Mick retired. I have always maintained a loyalty of sorts to the Yankees, usually most clearly seen in October when usually my Cubs and White Sox are long dead, and have attempted to go back to being a Yankee fan a couple times, but it is just too late after all this time, would be like changing families, and this is what we were talking about, and the last thing he said to me was there would always be an extra space on the Yankee bandwagon for me when the line went dead, did not know for a week if he had got out alive, but I know the floor he was on was very much in his favor. But like most Americans my rage and tears ran unabated for about a week at which time the markets restarted and I knew of all of my firms safety. But generally speaking I do find flag waving to be a dangerous emotion, I know my nation is guilty of much, of course I love her dearly, but I also know the rest of the world is not stupid and they usually hold their perception with good reason whether or not it is correct, many potential sides to a truth, etc.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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2010
Mar 12, 2010 21:38:06 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 21:38:06 GMT -5
Yike!!! I'm out of town for five days and...this place finally woke up and has something for me to sink my teeth into.......Allow me to put this into perspective for you all.....Ian is not unlike a lot of corporate higher-ups, CEO's, folks approaching retirement or for that matter any of us. He has morphed into your basis local so and so. He has a formula that works, makes money and is milking it for all it's worth. I can't say I'm looking to set the world on fire (anymore) in my career. I can't fault him too much for taking the easy way. He has earned it.
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Mar 13, 2010 11:59:51 GMT -5
Post by TM on Mar 13, 2010 11:59:51 GMT -5
Ray, my remark was certainly not aimed at you. What I was saying was that Tommie has a right to express himself freely even though what he says might upset others who feel Ian should never be criticized. The same is true of everyone who disagrees with Tommie, they too have a right to express themselves freely here. I think Ian Anderson is a complex individual, who would be the first to admit that he can be cranky at times, and that he is a human being who has flaws like all of us. That being said, I do think he is a musical and songwriting genius, and is truly gifted and inspired. His music and words have meant so much to me over the years. But he is not a god, and even he himself is uncomfortable with that. And on a discussion forum, people should be allowed to criticize his performances, vocals, the conflicting statements he has recently made concerning a new album, etc. Believe me, though, it is with pain, not glee, that we do so. Moreover, while we have sometimes expressed criticism of some of his recent performances and statements he has made in interviews,, to be fair you would have to say that we also have expressed great praise and admiration for his work and his career. Also, look at a thread that I started entitled "Ian the Good." I have pointed out there, and in other places, his contributions to charitable causes, the many benefit concerts he has played, his willingness to help budding musicians, the fact that he employed a lot of people on Skye and was well-regarded as an employer in his fish-farming business, etc. And, on three of the four occasions I have met him, he was gracious enough and did agree to an autograph and photo. I have pointed all this out on the board. But I and others have also been critical of certain things, and it just so happens you jumped aboard here at a particular time when many people feel disappointed about the current setlist, current state of his vocals and some of the comments he made in recent interviews. Also, I am not sure if you are aware of this, but you also joined here only a week after there was a major incident of censorship at the Jethro Tull Fan Forum, where an entire thread was deleted because of critical comments made about the recent shows and about certain things IA said in an interview in the March 2010 edition of Record Collector magazine. (I left that board six months ago because of numerous other instances of censorship.) Several members there were quite upset about the latest incident of censorship on that board, because all they had done was express their views and opinions. So, if anything, my comment was directed against those on the other board who feel that Tull should never be criticized. By the way, it was I who told the story about the first time we met IA backstage. It was after the Catfish show, during the time when he had gotten into amazing physical shape, and when we first entered the corridor, we did see a group of five or six great looking young women thronging around him in the hallway. I did not say anything other than that. And I never said he was hanging out with them, only that they were trying to talk to him, as other people, including my friend and I, were trying to do as well. As far as politics are concerned, I am not tea-party person, nor am I even a Republican. But I did not like it when Ian expressed disdain for those who displayed the Amercian flag after 9/11, nor have I liked it when, over the years, he has made disparaging remarks about American audiences. I honestly believe that people should have the right to speak, criticize and express themselves freely. I also do not think that IA would look favorably upon a discussion board that consisted of nothing but unfettered praise of him, because I think he really is uncomfortable with being put on a pedestal, and I would venture to say that he would probably agree with our approach, where freedom of speech is paramount. I have invited you to make the pro-Ian case, to defend him vigorously, and to debate others who express criticism. That's what this should be about, and I want you to feel welcome here. I just hope that we can discuss things in a non-threatening manner and try to respect each other's opinions and speak to each other civilly, no matter how much we may disagree. Bear in mind though that each of us here are in agreement that Tull is our favorite band of all time. Jeff P.S. We also believe in having some fun here, so why not have a look at our Lyric Quiz and Album Wars threads, which you may be interested in. That was fantastic Jeff! No no no....not your argument. Well yes....that was good too. But the way you segued it all into the final plug for the board was a thing of beauty!
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 12:24:10 GMT -5
Post by TM on Mar 13, 2010 12:24:10 GMT -5
Yike!!! I'm out of town for five days and...this place finally woke up and has something for me to sink my teeth into.......Allow me to put this into perspective for you all.....Ian is not unlike a lot of corporate higher-ups, CEO's, folks approaching retirement or for that matter any of us. He has morphed into your basis local so and so. He has a formula that works, makes money and is milking it for all it's worth. I can't say I'm looking to set the world on fire (anymore) in my career. I can't fault him too much for taking the easy way. He has earned it. Well said. Enjoy your vacation Max. And say hi to Billy Hill the next time you run into him. I was thinking about a thread that Billy started on the last board that I would like to resurrect here, but now the idea escapes me. Funny thing, beer.
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Mar 13, 2010 12:37:53 GMT -5
Post by TM on Mar 13, 2010 12:37:53 GMT -5
Tullist, I think I have been alone in the use of the term sycophant in recent posts and debates. Please give me a moment to explain why I used it. I have no issue with people posting that they are looking forward to a show, enjoyed a show, love a piece of work, think Ian's voice is fine, that the set lists are imaginative or even expansive. But, I do take issue when some people shout others down when they [whether it be me or anyone else]expresses an alternate opinion and accuses us of being Ian-haters, whingers and moaners and of not being Tull fans, wihout posing a valid contrary argument other than name-calling. I can fully accept that there isn't the need for outright verbal or personal abuse, and that a good reasoned argument is way better than name calling; but, I resorted to the use of the term sycophant because quite frankly no-one taking a different opinion to me and a few others was giving any credence to the alternate arguments we were putting forward. [Well, not until the latest video footage surfaced and then a few doubts appear to have crept into a few quarters]. I don't think I resorted to name calling but I did have a few people aiming jibes at me and my posts. I was also put out [see my post elsewhere on that board] in particular to the deletion of a whole thread which, in the main, contained valid argements from both sides. It was left on the forum, at the discreation of the moderators, for some time, and if I recall correctly even had them [or at least one of them] joining in at points. Yet despite making some reasoned points, I and a few other were singled out as "Ian-haters". Yes, of course I hate Ian, that's why I have spent countlees pounds and invested 40 years of my life following the band, - that alone demonstrates the sheer madness of their name-calling. I think a healthy forum is where everyones views are valid and where decent exchange of those views, with good moderation, allows those views and opinions to be heard and possibly influence: And by that I mean that maybe some of us with a more negative view could be cajoled with a few stories reminding us now and again of how good things are and how the band are still delivering in some areas. I make no blanket apologies to the type of people who I called sycophants, they are the ones who lambast others for taking a differing, yet equally valid view. I aimed the sycophant jibe at them for a reason, they are in my opinion more responsible for a lot the feuding that goes on in these sort of issues than peopelewho hold and try to express an "opposite" opinion. For those who seem to have taken it personally and who I needed to explain it to, I have explained it, and the choice as to whether to accept my reasoning lies with them. I hold no grudge or malice towards any Tull fan, either here or on any other board and I hope that here we can enter into a lively and spirited discussion about Tull and other topics, whether the views expressed are good, bad, indifferent, passionate or complacent. all the best. I don't think you need to defend or explain yourself Quizz. You were spot on with your use of the word. This board will remain a place where Tull fans can openly discuss their views on Tull, and other things - civilly of course, since there is no fear or agenda here as there is elsewhere, and as there was in the past.
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 15:31:42 GMT -5
Post by Nonfatman on Mar 13, 2010 15:31:42 GMT -5
Thanks, Paul....got to sneak those plugs in where I can to get the Lyric Quizzes and Album Wars threads going again. Nobody has even taken a crack at Lyric Quizzes 15-20 yet. I think at this point I may have even forgotten the answers myself! (Not really....at least I don't think I have?!?) Anyone going to try them? Jeff
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 16:19:15 GMT -5
Post by TM on Mar 13, 2010 16:19:15 GMT -5
Thanks, Paul....got to sneak those plugs in where I can to get the Lyric Quizzes and Album Wars threads going again. Nobody has even taken a crack at Lyric Quizzes 15-20 yet. I think at this point I may have even forgotten the answers myself! (Not really....at least I don't think I have?!?) Anyone going to try them? Jeff I'll take a shot tonight. I just hope it doesn't end as usual. I'm sure everyone's heard the Homer Simpson "doh" before.
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 16:38:17 GMT -5
Post by Tommiebaby on Mar 13, 2010 16:38:17 GMT -5
Hi. I'm baaaack lol.
Just reminiscing about the following: I'm Italian and grew up in a strongly Italian neighborhood in the Bronx in the '70's. I adored Tull but everyone else, including my dear friends (a lot of whom remain so --I'm lucky) were what we affectionately used to refer to as "Guidos".....just like Tony in "Sat Nite Fever". This was the height of dick-so ...oops I mean disco. And that was the music they all were into--Gloria Gaynor, etc...cant add any other disco names from that time b/c I'll start getting sick.
Anyway, whenever my friends in & I would hang out, in somebody's house or, more likely, in a car, ( even tho I was under age my dad knew I was an expert driver, so often I was the driver) I always had my 8-Tracks (remember them?) of JETHRO TULL & only Tull. And I would get so much shit from these guys---ha ha, I luved it!----like "turn that shit off, it sucks!" Especially my beloved Passion Play. I remember my friend Anthony saying, "What the fuck is he talkin' about?! 'Contemplate the milking girl whose offer is his need'?!"
My point is: I will never let anyone say they are any more of a true, honest Tull fan than I. lol
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Tullist
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 63
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 17:14:41 GMT -5
Post by Tullist on Mar 13, 2010 17:14:41 GMT -5
Hi. I'm baaaack lol. Just reminiscing about the following: I'm Italian and grew up in a strongly Italian neighborhood in the Bronx in the '70's. I adored Tull but everyone else, including my dear friends (a lot of whom remain so --I'm lucky) were what we affectionately used to refer to as "Guidos".....just like Tony in "Sat Nite Fever". This was the height of dick-so ...oops I mean disco. And that was the music they all were into--Gloria Gaynor, etc...cant add any other disco names from that time b/c I'll start getting sick. Anyway, whenever my friends in & I would hang out, in somebody's house or, more likely, in a car, ( even tho I was under age my dad knew I was an expert driver, so often I was the driver) I always had my 8-Tracks (remember them?) of JETHRO TULL & only Tull. And I would get so much shit from these guys---ha ha, I luved it!----like "turn that shit off, it sucks!" Especially my beloved Passion Play. I remember my friend Anthony saying, "What the fuck is he talkin' about?! 'Contemplate the milking girl whose offer is his need'?!" My point is: I will never let anyone say they are any more of a true, honest Tull fan than I. lol Yeah, and I grew up with the leading operators of the Mafia either living right next door, our old next door neighbor was the head of the Chicago juice loan rackets and went to prison, or Big Tuna aka Joey Batters, aka Tony Accardo living 2 blocks away and attending the same church and our little league games. I know me some guido, including many of my still best friends who not surprisingly have nothing to do with the mob. Doubting your mantle of most loyal Tull fan? That's all yours baby, and has never been the issue with why people take deep umbrage with your posts. You are welcome to sit at the top of the Tull pile, I hope the view is beautiful from up there. Hands off people who might have a different view of Tulls post 95 output. I have taken the time to go thru each and every one of your posts at the other, usually wrongfully maligned board, and no fewer than eighty per cent of them deal with hammering on about Ian's voice, several ones where there is your announcement that that is the last time u will do so, and u simply can't, u live there. I would mark Ian's singing on something like Rupi's dance to be the equal of any point in their career, and numerous wonderful live shows since 95. In fact I think Ian's voice may have reached its nadir between 84 and 91, and has been on a uptick since 99. And for all the constant chatter about his voice as if that is the only aspect of Tull that matters, I so rarely or that would be never mention of something I must have read in A New Day about 10 years ago that makes sense to me, apparently he had visited a throat specialist around this time who came up with the very practical assessment that the problem was singing over a very loud rock band versus playing a very aggressive style of flute, at least sometimes, or playing the flute at all involves elements in a throat that are very much at odds with each other, he was given some methods of combating this, but I suspect in large part the damage is done. This is not a claim that Neil Young or others who have been mentioned who are a year or three older than Ian have needed to combat. Now if folks think he should have put it to bed in 79, 84, 95, 99, 04 or 10 as is said, "we"re happy for u." But there are other people like me who feel some of the finest work, both in studio and live with Tull has been done since 95, and don't play the veteran card with me Tommie, my experience with Tull began alot earlier than u, yeah I remember the "glory" days and the crowds were often a pain in the ass, nearly causing a very early retirement a time or two. "So there."
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 18:50:07 GMT -5
Post by Tommiebaby on Mar 13, 2010 18:50:07 GMT -5
Good points , tullist. Iwas just reminiscing. You are just as ardent a fan as anyone, I'm sure. No animosity toward you at all. Sorry if any of my posts bothered you....seriously. I never heard that story re: Ian's singing & flute playing being at odds with each other on the throat. Never knew that. Thanks. Take care.
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Tullist
One of the Youngest of the Family
Posts: 63
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 20:07:27 GMT -5
Post by Tullist on Mar 13, 2010 20:07:27 GMT -5
bless u man u cannot imagine what that has done for my spirits, during likely the most difficult days of my life, the genesis of which i will spare u a reading of. u have given me a boost that frankly gets me a little choked up, that is what i want out of tull land. ty tommie. ty ty ty
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 21:18:35 GMT -5
Post by Nonfatman on Mar 13, 2010 21:18:35 GMT -5
I can't tell you guys how happy I was to read those last two posts. It brought a smile to my face, and left me a little choked up too. Never too late to make The Clasp.
Jeff
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2010
Mar 13, 2010 23:36:16 GMT -5
Post by TM on Mar 13, 2010 23:36:16 GMT -5
Yes! Thanks for showing that you are both right and honorable gentlemen. We're all passionate about our Tull, which is why we're all here in the first place. But let me tell you this mofo's, you don't hold a Tull-candle to me!
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2010
Mar 18, 2010 9:00:00 GMT -5
Post by TM on Mar 18, 2010 9:00:00 GMT -5
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